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Question: Who won the debate?
President Barack Obama   -33 (23.1%)
Willard "Mitt"Romney   -110 (76.9%)
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Total Voters: 143

Author Topic: Who won the Debate?  (Read 3506 times)
J. J.
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« Reply #100 on: October 03, 2012, 10:57:27 pm »
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CNN focus group of undecided voters:

Romney had more high points.

5 to 16 Romney won.

8 to 8 split vote changes, which is Obama's best news tonight.

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J. J.

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« Reply #101 on: October 03, 2012, 11:08:37 pm »
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You do all realize that Obama will probably win the instapolls right?

He will now accept his accolades.
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АverroŽs Nix
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« Reply #102 on: October 03, 2012, 11:20:20 pm »
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I don't understand all of the complaining about Lehrer. He let the candidates talk. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing - as a debate viewer, I'm always frustrated by moderators who insist on strict adherence to the arbitrary time limits that have been set beforehand.
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« Reply #103 on: October 03, 2012, 11:22:32 pm »
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Romney
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Napoleon
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« Reply #104 on: October 03, 2012, 11:23:15 pm »
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I don't understand all of the complaining about Lehrer. He let the candidates talk. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing - as a debate viewer, I'm always frustrated by moderators who insist on strict adherence to the arbitrary time limits that have been set beforehand.

He actually provided the best debate moderation I've seen; I was very surprised. That Obama was too spineless to seize the opportunity the way Romney did can only speak for him and his campaign.
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« Reply #105 on: October 03, 2012, 11:24:02 pm »
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CBS poll of undecided voters:

Winner:

46% Romney, 22% Obama.

Opinion of Romney:

More Favorable:  56%

Less Favorable:  11%

Cares about your probles:

Obama:  69%

Romney:  63%

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57525698/poll-uncommitted-voters-say-romney-wins-debate/
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J. J.

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« Reply #106 on: October 03, 2012, 11:31:24 pm »
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Have to think this means several of them were already Obama voters..

CNN focus group of undecided voters:

Romney had more high points.

5 to 16 Romney won.

8 to 8 split vote changes, which is Obama's best news tonight.


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cinyc
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« Reply #107 on: October 03, 2012, 11:35:11 pm »
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I don't understand all of the complaining about Lehrer. He let the candidates talk. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing - as a debate viewer, I'm always frustrated by moderators who insist on strict adherence to the arbitrary time limits that have been set beforehand.

He actually provided the best debate moderation I've seen; I was very surprised. That Obama was too spineless to seize the opportunity the way Romney did can only speak for him and his campaign.

Lehrer was terrible.  His questions weren't even close to focused and he got run over by the candidates while trying to enforce time limits.  It was a very weak moderating performance.
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J. J.
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« Reply #108 on: October 03, 2012, 11:36:43 pm »
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Have to think this means several of them were already Obama voters..

CNN focus group of undecided voters:

Romney had more high points.

5 to 16 Romney won.

8 to 8 split vote changes, which is Obama's best news tonight.



No, they were all undecided.
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
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"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
True Federalist
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« Reply #109 on: October 03, 2012, 11:40:02 pm »
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I don't understand all of the complaining about Lehrer. He let the candidates talk. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing - as a debate viewer, I'm always frustrated by moderators who insist on strict adherence to the arbitrary time limits that have been set beforehand.

He actually provided the best debate moderation I've seen; I was very surprised. That Obama was too spineless to seize the opportunity the way Romney did can only speak for him and his campaign.

Lehrer was terrible.  His questions weren't even close to focused and he got run over by the candidates while trying to enforce time limits.  It was a very weak moderating performance.

Why should he enforce arbitrary time limits?  Ideally, the only function a moderator should provide is to ensure that both get a chance to speak and that they actually debate rather than spout soundbytes.
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« Reply #110 on: October 03, 2012, 11:40:15 pm »
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My view - Romney won the debate, for a number of reasons...
a) Obama got off to a bad start, he looked annoyed and only got into his stride well after the half-way mark
b) Romney dropped a number of clangers (especially medicare) and Obama didn't touch them... I dont get it. Yes, don't be a prick... But don't be ... You know, the other either
c) Romney won the expectation war, Obama was set up to fail and add that Obama seemed flat and Romney looked more poised, so a blow out was pretty much destined from the start...

BUT - I think Obama won the substance war, problem being, style always trumps substance in these things.

I doubt anything beyond a Romney meltdown would have resulted in a win, but Obama deserves a lot of blame for allowing the perception of a bigger win that it actually was.
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« Reply #111 on: October 03, 2012, 11:42:53 pm »
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I don't understand all of the complaining about Lehrer. He let the candidates talk. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing - as a debate viewer, I'm always frustrated by moderators who insist on strict adherence to the arbitrary time limits that have been set beforehand.

He actually provided the best debate moderation I've seen; I was very surprised. That Obama was too spineless to seize the opportunity the way Romney did can only speak for him and his campaign.

Lehrer was terrible.  His questions weren't even close to focused and he got run over by the candidates while trying to enforce time limits.  It was a very weak moderating performance.

That's what I liked. Let the men speak! Would you prefer John King?
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« Reply #112 on: October 03, 2012, 11:43:43 pm »
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My view - Romney won the debate, for a number of reasons...
a) Obama got off to a bad start, he looked annoyed and only got into his stride well after the half-way mark
b) Romney dropped a number of clangers (especially medicare) and Obama didn't touch them... I dont get it. Yes, don't be a prick... But don't be ... You know, the other either
c) Romney won the expectation war, Obama was set up to fail and add that Obama seemed flat and Romney looked more poised, so a blow out was pretty much destined from the start...

BUT - I think Obama won the substance war, problem being, style always trumps substance in these things.

I doubt anything beyond a Romney meltdown would have resulted in a win, but Obama deserves a lot of blame for allowing the perception of a bigger win that it actually was.

Exactly. Romney in no way "ran away" with the debate, but Obama failed to articulate his policies, or Romney's for that matter, that made it appear otherwise.
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АverroŽs Nix
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« Reply #113 on: October 03, 2012, 11:44:05 pm »
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I agree with Polnut's analysis; all the talk about 'zingers' was misdirection, and it seems to have thrown Obama off his game.

I don't understand all of the complaining about Lehrer. He let the candidates talk. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing - as a debate viewer, I'm always frustrated by moderators who insist on strict adherence to the arbitrary time limits that have been set beforehand.

He actually provided the best debate moderation I've seen; I was very surprised. That Obama was too spineless to seize the opportunity the way Romney did can only speak for him and his campaign.

Lehrer was terrible.  His questions weren't even close to focused and he got run over by the candidates while trying to enforce time limits.  It was a very weak moderating performance.

I prefer a conversation directed by the candidates - things tend to be more policy-focused that way, which was clearly the case in tonight's debate. A debate fueled by horse race garbage and cheap confrontations may be more interesting, but it doesn't contribute to a healthier political environment. (In other words, I completely agree with Napoleon and TrueFederalist's responses, which appeared as I wrote this.)
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« Reply #114 on: October 03, 2012, 11:47:50 pm »
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My view - Romney won the debate, for a number of reasons...
a) Obama got off to a bad start, he looked annoyed and only got into his stride well after the half-way mark
b) Romney dropped a number of clangers (especially medicare) and Obama didn't touch them... I dont get it. Yes, don't be a prick... But don't be ... You know, the other either
c) Romney won the expectation war, Obama was set up to fail and add that Obama seemed flat and Romney looked more poised, so a blow out was pretty much destined from the start...

BUT - I think Obama won the substance war, problem being, style always trumps substance in these things.

I doubt anything beyond a Romney meltdown would have resulted in a win, but Obama deserves a lot of blame for allowing the perception of a bigger win that it actually was.
yes the guy with less substance than the other guy won on substance.  Also the guy with the least amount of specifics raised a great point in bringing up the other guys specifics. 
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cinyc
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« Reply #115 on: October 03, 2012, 11:48:00 pm »
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I don't understand all of the complaining about Lehrer. He let the candidates talk. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing - as a debate viewer, I'm always frustrated by moderators who insist on strict adherence to the arbitrary time limits that have been set beforehand.

He actually provided the best debate moderation I've seen; I was very surprised. That Obama was too spineless to seize the opportunity the way Romney did can only speak for him and his campaign.

Lehrer was terrible.  His questions weren't even close to focused and he got run over by the candidates while trying to enforce time limits.  It was a very weak moderating performance.

Why should he enforce arbitrary time limits?  Ideally, the only function a moderator should provide is to ensure that both get a chance to speak and that they actually debate rather than spout soundbytes.

Because by not enforcing time limits, the debate left little time for the last of the six topics - governing.  They ran out of time.

The rules are the rules.  Time limits aren't arbitrary.  They are a necessary part of any debate, forcing candidates to be more concise than they otherwise would be and leaving time for other topics.
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« Reply #116 on: October 03, 2012, 11:59:11 pm »
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Romney "ran over" Lehrer more than Obama. It just depresses me because when I go out to volunteer for the President I see a lot of people working really hard for him and then when he's limp in a debate and doesn't aggressively take the last word, it upsets me. I haven't felt this way about Obama since 2008, after Sarah Palin was picked but before she was exposed, when Obama was getting questioned by Republicans about what he did as a community organizer. You caught a glimpse of him then stripped away, a young man again, uncertain of himself. Oh, brother. The difference is, back then he hadn't been President, and now he has; legislatively, in terms of economics, he's actually done well, he's outperformed (how many Presidents before him failed to pass health care reform?), to such an extent that a Republican Presidential nominee like Romney now feels compelled to agree with him on one issue after another and go shadow-boxing at the margins of his policies; but he doesn't get a lot of credit for it for various reasons. And he's still not very good at defending himself during these debates. But what can we do? Life is, what it is. If Romney wins, depression will just replace anxiety in my national outlook. Revert to what it was during the Bush years, except worse.
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Miles
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« Reply #117 on: October 04, 2012, 12:06:43 am »
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My 71 year-old grandma texted me tonight and said "Romney kicked ass." I'm inclined to agree.
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« Reply #118 on: October 04, 2012, 12:08:12 am »
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Big win for Romney tonight. He came on as tough and in charge of the discussion whereas President Obama come off as disinterested and "tired". I suspect that Obama's advisers told him not to go on the offensive against Romney, and it backfired massively. Romney was more prepared it seemed and frankly talked circles around the President. The thing is Romney had to win this debate or else this campaign could very well have been over. He knew he had to win this or his attempt at succeeding where his father George Romney failed in 1968 would be lost forever.

I dare say this is perhaps the worst debate performance in Obama's political career. Sans maybe his debates where he was beaten by Hillary in 2008. Obama completely let Romney get away with attacking him and only responded in a dull voice going on about the details of his policies. Obama was playing defense big-time. He didn't even bring up the "47%" remarks. Romney was clearly much more energized and ready for this.

I suspect in the coming days we will see the polls tighten in the swing states and nationally. This really is a big flub for the President's campaign. It reminds me of how in 2004 the only time the Bush/Cheney people were really worried they might loose was after John Kerry creamed Bush in the first debate.

Obama is going to have to come out on top in the next debate between them or this could be over. They might be able to stop Mitt's momentum in the VP debate next Thursday however.
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« Reply #119 on: October 04, 2012, 12:11:27 am »
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Not seen it, so dunno.

However, the statements seem to suggest that it went Romney's way. What was the main focus of the debate?
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« Reply #120 on: October 04, 2012, 12:12:52 am »
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Pertaining to the argument over time limits, both sides have a legitimate case.  Adherence to the rules is important, but it's definitely better to see a substantive debate than for the candidates to simply repeat their previous talking points.  

The consensus seems to be that Romney won the debate.  Although it wasn't a runaway, I'm inclined to agree.  Romney was more aggressive than I was expected, and Obama was surprisingly demure.  He looked tired and tended to look down while Romney was speaking, while Romney stood firmer and straighter.  I'd be interested to see what body language experts have to say in their analysis.  In a sense, he looked and talked like someone who was losing, despite the polls having him even or ahead.  
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J. J.
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« Reply #121 on: October 04, 2012, 12:23:38 am »
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BUT - I think Obama won the substance war, problem being, style always trumps substance in these things.

I doubt anything beyond a Romney meltdown would have resulted in a win, but Obama deserves a lot of blame for allowing the perception of a bigger win that it actually was.

I think Romney did win the war of substance, in that he articulated how lowering unemployment would help the deficit and how lower taxes would help lower unemployment.  He offered a competing vision of America.

Now, if, within the fortnight, we get bad employment numbers (they are due Friday), it will validate that Obama has failed.  Either a static rate, and/or no growth in employment could be the one-two punch that knocks Obama out.  Conversely, good numbers could save Obama. 
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J. J.

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« Reply #122 on: October 04, 2012, 12:31:31 am »
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Mitt Romney was the 49ers to Obama's Denver. That was embarrassing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2-d3oUdO0Q
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Senator Polnut
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« Reply #123 on: October 04, 2012, 12:54:07 am »
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Alright, let's just return to reality for a minute here... nobody 'wiped the floor' with anybody.

Obama was disappointing and flat, Romney was better than he was in all of the GOP primary debates... The Romney people did an extraordinary job of ensuring that Obama could only 'win' in an extreme circumstance. But Romney could have still 'lost' so I'll certainly give him and his team credit for that.

I don't know how anyone is genuinely surprised by the outcome... Obama is not a great debater, Romney has had months to work on this and is a smart guy... I should stress I'm not making excuses for Obama, because he should have been better than this.

Hopefully, this serves as a wake-up call to the president...
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« Reply #124 on: October 04, 2012, 01:02:13 am »
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Alright, let's just return to reality for a minute here... nobody 'wiped the floor' with anybody.

Obama was disappointing and flat, Romney was better than he was in all of the GOP primary debates... The Romney people did an extraordinary job of ensuring that Obama could only 'win' in an extreme circumstance. But Romney could have still 'lost' so I'll certainly give him and his team credit for that.

I don't know how anyone is genuinely surprised by the outcome... Obama is not a great debater, Romney has had months to work on this and is a smart guy... I should stress I'm not making excuses for Obama, because he should have been better than this.

Hopefully, this serves as a wake-up call to the president...


Obama was a great debater in 2008, and he is supposedly running against a Mitbot. 

Clinton got his wake up call in 1994.  Obama put the alarm on doze. 
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J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
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