French UMP leadership election, 2012
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Author Topic: French UMP leadership election, 2012  (Read 16108 times)
Hash
Hashemite
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« Reply #100 on: November 26, 2012, 09:31:12 AM »

Lionel Tardy, one of the main Filloniste MPs, on itélé:

La messe est dîte

Now it seems sure that we gonna create a new parliamentary group with the 134 other MPs supporting Fillon.

François Fillon would announce the official decision on Tuesday.

So yeah, Copé keeps the official UMP (well, what's left of it), and the split of the parliamentary group could be the 1st step to a new party, 'the last 'Gaulliste' breath'.

lol, Copé camp guys keeping saying, 'let's wait what the appeal will say!'...

So Fillon is really leaving? And he's taking 2/3 of MPs with him? Shocked That's wonderful news if true.

Unless Jeff's allies all hate him now, that makes no sense because only 84 MPs and 71 Senators endorsed Fillon. And I doubt that every single one of them will be keen on leaving the UMP.

This article, by Laurent de Boissieu, who is the only journalist who knows what the hell he's talking about is interesting and people should read him instead of reading the overpaid idiots who do the other newspapers (he also understands how the financing stuff works, unlike everybody else):  http://www.ipolitique.fr/archive/2012/11/24/fillon-scission-ump.html
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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #101 on: November 26, 2012, 11:16:20 AM »

The mess continues...

Apparently the lunch with Sarkozy didn't change a lot, since later in the day Fillon began some judiciary steps and sent a bailiff (I'm discovering anew English word) to seize the documents of the appeal commission (before this commission gives its results!).

Copé camp asked a magistrate to oppose this, and the bailiff just left the UMP HQ, apparently he took nothing. The results of commission are said to come at worst in one hour. Fillon camp will announce their official judiciary decision after that. The political decisions are still planned for tomorrow.

Meanwhile everybody continue to go messy, some propose new vote (NKM, Estrosi), some one more new commission (Guéant), some that the new president don't run for primaries (Lemaire)Paillé (former UMP spokesman, left it for Borloo months ago) called Copé a Bokassa, the UMP treasurer, D. Dord, accuses Copé to have taken 200.000 € for his campaign, and so it goes in UMP, normal daily life of the post 21st November 2012 then...

Ah and, there is also the battle for Sarkozy now!

Both camps are claiming to have had 'a very warm discussion with Sarkozy'...

Anyhow, apparently, Fillon would attack.

More soon.
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doktorb
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« Reply #102 on: November 26, 2012, 11:27:08 AM »

What are the chances of UMP being split, and new parties being formed?

And just for fun, what would you call them Smiley Wink
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Zanas
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« Reply #103 on: November 26, 2012, 11:31:12 AM »

Very little actual chances, because of the public funding of parties' rules.

Anyway, if there was, I would call them RPR and UDF... Wink
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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #104 on: November 26, 2012, 11:33:50 AM »

And the winner is...........

(should I write it?? well, ok)

JEAN-FRANCOIS!!

...Copé

Official results from the appeal commission (called CONARE, sounding like 'connard', which means 'bastard', kudos to them for that):

Win by 952 votes
Nouvelle-Calédonie cancelled
1st office of Alpes-Maritimes cancelled

Fillon reaction to come soon.
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Hash
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« Reply #105 on: November 26, 2012, 11:37:45 AM »

Ah, so they made no effort to appear even remotely legit.

Of course Fillonistas rigged the Alpes-Maritimes, but if anybody thinks Jeff didn't steal any department, then I've got a beachfront property to sell you in Soweto.
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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #106 on: November 26, 2012, 12:25:04 PM »

What are the chances of UMP being split, and new parties being formed?

And just for fun, what would you call them Smiley Wink

Decisions will be taken tomorrow, would all belong to the number of MPs who will accept to join Fillon. You never know. Fillon has for him some good polls, a rather good image nationally, or at least a better image than Copé, a kinda statesman status and embodies the traditional Right, which can be reassuring.

Copé has for him, his dynamic populism trying to take the best possible winds, and took rather the far-right wind, a wind which is already taken by a very strong personality who is trying to be more and more consensual, MLP.

Both has 50% of militants (which is something), and each one built a tough camp, and a violent opposition happened between them during one week.

Beyond the number of MPs and the number of voters that each one can have, what''s interesting is what happened with all the figureheads of the party, it wasn't only Fillon and a bunch of big guys around him, both have about 50% of the big figureheads of the party that engaged themselves into this violent fight. In term of image it's hard to imagine a reconciliation within a few days, but yes, the most important because the most concrete would remain the number of MPs who will accept to jump over it, and yes, indeed money and elective infrastructure will be important, will they stay behind the 35 millions € indebted classical label...


...well that being said, it's more than this debt, it's a big machine, and it can also still be seen as the historical home of Sarkozy, in which a lot of people in the UMP would still hope for a come back for 2017, so you never know...

...or would they join the...MPR!

Yeah, I also couldn't help wondering about a name for a new party around Fillon, Mouvement Populaire Rébuplicain could be pretty fine, wouldn't it?? Mix of UMP and RPR.

But hey, last news, 40 MPs, apparently mainly Copé's, but also a few Fillon's, Douillet is in it, called for the unity of the party around the new official leader. As journalists say, legitimist tradition would also be an important cultural aspect in the Right amongst those who are not leaders.

Earlier, Copé made a very consensualist speech ofter the official results, indeed calling for the unity of the party and for the organization of a big dialogue within the party.

So let's just see!

Chartier, other big Filloniste MP, just gave the official reaction of Fillon camp, they indeed don't recognize the results of the 'CONARE', and they say 'they gonna use all mean to make respect the vote of militants', and Bussereau, UMP baron, is speaking right now on itélé about finding any mean to revote. It seems to be their tactic, attacking in Justice in the name of a new vote, but one more time they really are not clear.

Chartier confirmed they gonna take political decisions for the UMP group tomorrow.

May Friday comes the soonest possible so that all of this ends!

This will be a boiling night for UMP MPs...

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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #107 on: November 26, 2012, 03:09:29 PM »

BREAKING!

(well, sort of...)

AFP: Sarkozy says it would be preferable to vote again.

Voting again being the tag idea all Fillonistes are spreading in media tonight.

Sarkozy's word still kinda made of gold by everybody in the UMP so far, and overall by Copé and friends.

This stuff never let you quiet...
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doktorb
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« Reply #108 on: November 26, 2012, 03:13:09 PM »

Very little actual chances, because of the public funding of parties' rules.

Anyway, if there was, I would call them RPR and UDF... Wink

Aaaah, you can tell that I'm from a country without public funding of parties Smiley
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #109 on: November 26, 2012, 04:46:46 PM »

Ton avatar bleu est troublant, Antonio.
Cela te va bien, tu devrais essayer plus souvent Grin

Je savais que tu aprécierais mon geste de soutien. Wink Aujourd'hui, droite et gauche confondues, nous sommes tous Fillonistes ! Cheesy
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« Reply #110 on: November 26, 2012, 05:31:11 PM »
« Edited: November 26, 2012, 05:33:48 PM by Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay »

Apparently all of this happened during the lunch between Fillon and Sarkozy, in which Fillon would have been determined to attack in Justice, and Sarkozy apparently wants to avoid it at all costs, thus why he would have said that.

It was not a direct statement of Sarkozy to AFP, but this has been confirmed by Peltier, pro-Copé, leader of 'La Droite Forte', winning motion, tonight on itélé who got the same information from a close relative of Sarkozy. Peltier is now saying that, yeah, we could vote again, after several months...

Some other Copés say 'manipulation!', 'no way!'. Some say 'I don't know, I don't have an official information'. Some call for Sarkozy to make an official intervention.

Apparently using Justice was the good threat, they all want to avoid it at all cost, and a matter of time before Sarkozy statement, Fillon's lawyer made an offensive enough statement saying that they will at all cost have the truth. Going in Justice could, according to the developments that could occur take from a few days, to a few weeks, to one year.

Apparently several big Fillon MPs, Douillet, Accoyer, for those who spoke on TV, want to avoid at all cost the split of the parliamentary group too, and thus are pushing for a new vote too.

Some other big ones, Bussereau, Woerth, are hesitating.

And some other ones are still calling for it.

Regarding this question, the intermediary solution could be that they split the group but both stay in the UMP. That'd be messy to manage money though. 2 treasurers in the UMP?? The last treasurer, Dominique Dord, pro-Fillon, resigned today, accusing Copé to have used party's money for his campaign.

Frankly, so far, a new vote would seem the best solution if they don't want to shoot UMP and anyhow to avoid both Justice and a split. They create 3 commissions with people representing all camps:

1 electoral commission to organize the vote in the best possible conditions (because seems that Copé organization wasn't wonderful to say the least).

1 electoral commission to collect and give the results.

1 appeal commission.

A new vote takes place in about one month. And the guy who loses and all his camp totally surrender to the results. And there it goes it takes them one year to heal one week of violent injuries, and it remains a bit of an other year to try to not totally screw at next elections.

Otherwise, they would totally shoot themselves, either by Justice, and/or by a split, regardless it's a split of the parliamentary group or of the party, and/or the less quickly they find a way to heal the more the next elections could shoot them.

Or, one more time the...SARKOZY MIRACLE COMES...

But, no, apparently he doesn't want right now, though he has a great support who launched a petition for him to come back!

Mr Roland Chassain, Mayor of Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer, who has the brilliant title to be the 1st UMP candidate to let his place to a FN candidate against a Socialiste after the 1st round of the last Législatives, and also who defends death penalty against terrorists...

Oh and Sarkozy has an other big support...

It was about one month ago:



http://www.nicematin.com/monaco/un-azureen-fait-1-million-de-vues-sur-youtube-avec-sa-chanson-sarko-revient.1051343.html

Full oeuvre

Nicolas Sarkozy, I pray you to come back, come back save our life
Mr President, French are not happy, you have to change government

All what you have promised, you will never achieved, it's time to piss off
I mus recognize, that you tried, but you failed
Germans have supported us, now we're being f**ked up, we're screwed

Nicolas Sarkozy, I pray you to come back, come back save our life
Taxes make us sink
Peugeot Renault left
Arnaud too

Left box was ticked
52% were wrong
We gonna fix it

All what you have promised, you will never achieved, it's time to piss off
I mus recognize, that you tried, but you failed
Germans have supported us, now we're being f**ked up, we're screwed

Nicolas Sarkozy, I pray you to come back, come back save our life
Taxes make us sink
Peugeot Renault left
Arnaud too

Nicolas Sarkozy, I pray you to come back, come back save our life

Nico it's up to you
We won't give up
We gonna support you

Apparently I had enough time on my hands to translate it. Grin

Hope you enjoyed our new political star, it indeed became famous on TVs and stuffs...

There we are!
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Simfan34
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« Reply #111 on: November 27, 2012, 12:07:27 AM »

So is Sarkozy coming back?
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #112 on: November 27, 2012, 12:14:27 AM »


Will he try? Probably. Will he succeed? Nope.
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Icehand Gino
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« Reply #113 on: November 27, 2012, 05:02:30 AM »

Fillon to announce the creation of a new parliamentary group called "Rassemblement-UMP" (very original), he promises to dissolve it if a re-run takes place.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #114 on: November 27, 2012, 05:04:49 AM »

Fillon to announce the creation of a new parliamentary group called "Rassemblement-UMP" (very original), he promises to dissolve it if a re-run takes place.

It's the name of the UMP allied party in New Caledonia, I suppose than the group will be attached to that party. (A bit like the New Center was attached to the Fetia Api of Tahiti).
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #115 on: November 27, 2012, 05:24:12 AM »

Do we know how many MPs are ready to jump the boat?
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doktorb
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« Reply #116 on: November 27, 2012, 05:30:52 AM »

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MaxQue
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« Reply #117 on: November 27, 2012, 05:34:33 AM »

Do we know how many MPs are ready to jump the boat?

Not clear, I saw numbers between 50 and 120.
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Hash
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« Reply #118 on: November 27, 2012, 08:11:51 AM »

Amusingly, however, Pierre Frogier, who is the only R-UMP parliamentarian (senator) from NC backed Jeff, not Fillon.
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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #119 on: November 27, 2012, 09:20:41 AM »

Do we know how many MPs are ready to jump the boat?

Not clear, I saw numbers between 50 and 120.

At 15h they said 74, which makes 1/3 of the UMP group.

Sarkozy is apparently quite pissed about what's going on and asked Copé and Fillon to meet.

They just met in the Assemblée according to itélé.

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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #120 on: November 27, 2012, 09:28:03 AM »

Also interesting intervention of Anne Levade, interesting teacher of Constitutional Right, on itélé.

She said that attaching themselves to the Neo-Calédonienne entity wouldn't be totally neutral, by this way they would benefit of the 1st fraction of public funding the Néo-Calédonienne RUMP obtains.

I wasn't far by mixing RPR and UMP, but my MPR didn't have a 1st fraction of public funding...
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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #121 on: November 27, 2012, 09:35:20 AM »

AH!

UMP, always here to go more messy.

Copé is apparently surrendering a bit, and maybe it could be because of Sarkozy's pressure, he proposes...

(you guess what the wonderful solution is...........??)

A vote on the vote!

He proposes militants to vote whether they want a new vote or not. ^^

We don't have Fillon reaction though. His condition was a new vote within 3 months to stay within UMP.
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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #122 on: November 27, 2012, 09:44:47 AM »

More than ever...


Their point might just be to make the biggest tribute they could to...

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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #123 on: November 27, 2012, 11:08:54 AM »

Copé has effectively officially announced he proposed a referendum about a new vote.

He said it could take place on December or January. Several UMP spoke about something through Internet.

He said that, indeed, Fillon camp would be associated to the organization of this referendum.

Fillon camp is debating the idea, and according to what's going on in the meeting (lol, twitter's everywhere apparently) they would be inclined to accept this referendum but would also impose some conditions. Official reaction waited.

Apparently it's really Sarkozy who pushed for it, and the idea of the referendum would even be his, before his intervention Copé was still resisting, even after the announcement of the new parliamentary group, Copé kinda admitted it in his speech.

So a Sarkozy miracle might have effectively taken place...

Meanwhile the mess had begun to touch the Sénat...

Apparently Fillonistes are majority there, and since this morning you had Larcher, Filloniste, trying to agitate the UMP group in order to clearly side Fillon. The underlying thing of this would be a fight with Gaudin, Copéiste, chief of the group, for the leading of this group. A debate will take place tomorrow there.

In the Assemblée, the Filloniste group seems to effectively be made of 74 MPs, they would have even signed for the creation of this group according to itélé.

Last news, Fillon would be asking for an external organization to hold this referendum, by Internet, no proxies, and before the end of this year.

They're finding a way??

Seems so.

Copé would have previously asked Fillon to withdraw his group though, no informations about that, Fillon official reaction is still waited though.
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tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #124 on: November 27, 2012, 11:22:49 AM »

Chartier gave the official reaction of Fillon camp, only about the group:

They're creating it. Fillon has been elected president of it, they gonna deposit the official status of it in the coming minutes...

But!

(lol...)

He said it is 'à titre conservatoire', it would mean that they could still withdraw it if a decision to directly hold the vote again happens. Which won't gonna happen.

He said they are still working on how to respond exactly to the proposal of referendum.
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