French UMP leadership election, 2012
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  French UMP leadership election, 2012
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Author Topic: French UMP leadership election, 2012  (Read 16121 times)
Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #125 on: November 27, 2012, 11:36:30 AM »

...and the final official number of MPs is...

...68.

(so far Grin...nah, apparently, that's totally official)

...but...you want one more turn??

Here's for you!

Very last news:

Copé is moving to the Assemblée to tell Fillon that it's either the referendum or the group, you can't have both.

Sarkozy?? Where's Sarkozy??
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #126 on: November 27, 2012, 11:45:34 AM »

OST of this soap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82BMXxdypWQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqXnpcye7hQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4VK9_CfOLQ

Maybe more to come, feel free to complete it.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #127 on: November 27, 2012, 12:57:10 PM »
« Edited: November 27, 2012, 01:18:25 PM by Benwah [why on Earth do I post something] Courseyay »

Battle of letters now!

Copé made an official letter in which he asks Fillon to make a choice between the group and the referendum.

Fillon also made an official letter (!), to tell Copé that they gonna freeze the money of their new group till a solution is found and before an eventual come back to the main group, he also accepts the referendum only there is a collective direction of the UMP till the vote, instead of Copé's, and effectively asks to be organized by an external organization, by Internet, without proxies, and before the end of the year.

Copé camp says they accept all those conditions...but!...not to let the lead of the direction of the UMP.

So, so far, it's Fillon blocking by his group and by his demand of collective direction...

It really turns ridiculous...
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #128 on: November 27, 2012, 01:09:01 PM »

It's a total...



Bataille de tranchées

Very violent fight to only gain inches of ground, and in the end there both losing a lot of forces.

Popular opinion aren't fond of those kinds of fights generally, are they?

But hey, I just hear the big general would have spoken.

It's being reported that Sarkozy would have written something that he communicated to both camps, and this thing would be saying that if they didn't agree on the conditions of a referendum before 18h30, this communiqué could be published, and according to a close relative of Sarkozy who gave this information, what's in it would be...scary.

So let's see...

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minionofmidas
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« Reply #129 on: November 27, 2012, 02:25:46 PM »

AH!

UMP, always here to go more messy.

Copé is apparently surrendering a bit, and maybe it could be because of Sarkozy's pressure, he proposes...

(you guess what the wonderful solution is...........??)

A vote on the vote!

He proposes militants to vote whether they want a new vote or not. ^^

I laughed when I read that. I admit it.
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #130 on: November 27, 2012, 02:34:09 PM »

And meanwhile the PS can quietly lead an other trench battle...
















And also...









And also...


And FN enjoys bitching about how they are the only ones credible to be the 1st opponents now, Borloo making it in a more subtle style too...


I'm actually alternating phases of incredibility and desperate laugh...

Come to think about it, Copé has made 3 official winning declarations, and hasn't still officially won!
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doktorb
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« Reply #131 on: November 27, 2012, 02:43:47 PM »

I wish this was getting more attention over here, it's much funnier/tragic than most British stories, and we've had a local council taking adopted children away from their foster parents on grounds of political party membership.....
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You kip if you want to...
change08
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« Reply #132 on: November 27, 2012, 03:04:56 PM »

RUMP, while a funny acronym in itself to an anglophone, is the most absurd name for a political group ever (when translated): The Rally for a Union for a Popular Movement.
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Hash
Hashemite
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« Reply #133 on: November 27, 2012, 03:10:42 PM »

RUMP, while a funny acronym in itself to an anglophone, is the most absurd name for a political group ever (when translated): The Rally for a Union for a Popular Movement.

The name is "Rassemblement-UMP", not "Rassemblement pour l'UMP". It literally means "Rally-UMP" and like it has been been noted, it is the name of the New Caledonian branch of the UMP which could provide the Fillonistes with access to public financing if they so choose. The party took that name in around 2002, prior to that it had been the RPCR (Rassemblement pour la Calédonie dans la République) and it retained the Rassemblement for some reason.

I'm still not sure why Fillon won New Caledonia. The local party has been split since it lost the legislative elections, but it appears that both faction leaders (Pierre Frogier and Gael Yanno) backed Jeff but now Frogier appears pissed that the Conare cancelled their results.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #134 on: November 27, 2012, 03:34:40 PM »

If there's a revote I'm fairly sure Fillon will win- and probably not by a recount margin either.
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Hashemite
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« Reply #135 on: November 27, 2012, 03:37:46 PM »

If there's a revote I'm fairly sure Fillon will win- and probably not by a recount margin either.

Copé wants to remain as party leader during the vote, which the Fillonistas will never accept (for good reason), so in the unlikely hypothesis that there was a revote and Jeff remained in charge, he would likely manage to rig the vote like he effectively rigged the first vote. This whole vote on the vote is a joke and a terribly retarded idea, the UMP is becoming a joke party very quickly.
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Hashemite
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« Reply #136 on: November 27, 2012, 03:43:58 PM »

Group declaration: http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2012/11/27/la-liste-des-parlementaires-ayant-rallie-le-groupe-rassemblement-ump_1796739_823448.html

68 members.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #137 on: November 27, 2012, 03:44:53 PM »

How else to avoid a splinter? No compromise choice as permanent leader waiting in the wings either.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #138 on: November 27, 2012, 04:26:53 PM »

Can someone make me a map showing Ump and Rump deputees' districts?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #139 on: November 27, 2012, 04:39:31 PM »

I suppose Flanby was due a bit of good news.
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Hash
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« Reply #140 on: November 27, 2012, 04:48:34 PM »

Can someone make me a map showing Ump and Rump deputees' districts?

Yeah, I'll make one.
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Zanas
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« Reply #141 on: November 27, 2012, 04:54:13 PM »

If there's a revote I'm fairly sure Fillon will win- and probably not by a recount margin either.

Copé wants to remain as party leader during the vote, which the Fillonistas will never accept (for good reason), so in the unlikely hypothesis that there was a revote and Jeff remained in charge, he would likely manage to rig the vote like he effectively rigged the first vote. This whole vote on the vote is a joke and a terribly retarded idea, the UMP is becoming a joke party very quickly.
I agree with you on that, but you got to admit it's also somewhat of a tricky move for Fillon to dodge... It's the kind of shot that forces your opponent to really work on his passing-shot.

Of course, politically, Fillon cannot accept such nonsense. But in the opinion and the media, Copé succeeds in appearing a bit more compromising with this proposal, and effectively manages to throw the ball back in Fillon's camp, as the media and the opinion won't see this for what it is : bullsh**t.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #142 on: November 27, 2012, 05:07:02 PM »

Can someone make me a map showing Ump and Rump deputees' districts?

Yeah, I'll make one.
Cool
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Hash
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« Reply #143 on: November 27, 2012, 06:31:53 PM »

Here's the current map of parliamentary groups, with R-UMP included



to compare to the map of endorsements

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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #144 on: November 27, 2012, 06:47:55 PM »

Damn it.

This whole thing might have done its 1st casualty. 1 dead person.

Tonight, the managing editor of Le Monde, Erik Izraelewicz, died, heart attack.

(sorry, couldn't resist doing it...)

So, Sarkozy didn't publish his threatening communiqué. But well, journalists gave what would have been in it if you believe them, they say he would have officially said how he was totally ashamed by what was going on and that none of them were statesmen.

Situation is still blocked around Fillon conditions though:

Collective direction instead of Copé's
Maintain of his group so far

Tonight, Christian Jacob, leader of the UMP MP group was saying that he couldn't imagine Fillon maintains his group, because it would like the 1st step toward the split of the party, which is indeed relevant.

Maybe this night will help everybody, in case that's still possible...

In any case they have already both lost in the national public opinion, it's really pitiful, only Sarkozy can, in case that's still possible, save this 'thing' still called UMP...

Ah, and, a debate is slowly growing now.

After the Assemblée Nationale, then the Sénat, now this thing is touching the Conseil Constitutionnel...



...of which you can enjoy the front door here, fancy, isn't it?

The Conseil Constitutionnel is made, amongst other people, of all the former presidents still alive (I saw Giscard on TV yesterday, wow, he seems closer and closer to lose this job, you never know though, intellectually he seems still pretty fine, and lol, when you know how Chirac mind is going lately, what a glorious institution we have here!) but back to those the one of which the biology isn't so bad yet...


...and that we can mainly see this way or when he enters from a car to a house or the opposite, precisely because of the debate that is slowly growing...) and those former Présidents de la République have a duty of confidentiality over political affairs. And so there we go, Sarkozy is step by step being everywhere in this affair but can't make loud official declaration and avoid the media the most he can, which, lol, participates to make all of this still more totally unusual.

That being said, I remember that during last national political campaigns Giscard was regularly invited to give his opinion about what was going on, the limit might be to not take part in stuffs, but debates going on about where the limit would be...

Not sure this debate could go still bigger but that's one more aspect of this affair which would be far to represent only the crisis of the French Right...

Biggest French political party, Assemblée, Sénat, Conseil Constitutionnel...

What's next step?

Hollande govt to be split between pro-Copés and and pro-Fillons??

Hollande taking part for one, Ayrault for the other one??

Division of Europe over it??

Ban Ki Moon to intervene??

Obama??

Putin??

China??

Life on Mars??

Well, isn't France the center of anything anyhow?

Frankly it sometimes totally look like in an Astérix. Actually. THe point being that in Astérix it's pretty fun, it's a book, but here it's freaking real! Ah and indeed Copé totally looks like a Romain, and Fillon like a good old Gaulois, but both in some villain roles.

I can't decide which one would be the most fitting, here are those that strike my mind right now:





Or maybe:



Tell me if you have better propositions...
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #145 on: November 27, 2012, 07:05:39 PM »

La Zizanie is one of my favorite Asterix albums. Cheesy

Anyways, yeah, Copé has set up a perfect trap for Fillon. I really hope he does not give up an inch of his positions. Even if it's politically difficult to oppose Copé's shenanigans, it is absolutely necessary.
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Kitteh
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« Reply #146 on: November 27, 2012, 08:36:33 PM »

Wow, I had no idea VGE was still alive. I guess he's about the same era as Jimmy Carter, though.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #147 on: November 27, 2012, 08:45:17 PM »

Wow, I had no idea VGE was still alive. I guess he's about the same era as Jimmy Carter, though.

Yup, they lost their job in the same year. Tongue
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
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« Reply #148 on: November 28, 2012, 11:10:09 AM »

So, last news...

Several proposals of several persons continued today apparently, but, at one point, Copé had given an ultimatum to Fillon to withdraw his group, 15h.

At 15h, the group was indeed maintained, so Michèle Tabarot, n°3 of Copé direction officially intervened to say that, now this is over. Copé is president, he stops all negotiations and he gonna do what he has been elected for, his job of opponent. Period.

Referendum is over then.

Later, Tardy, one of the biggest Fillon MPs, reacted as if everything was normal, saying that they're still asking for a new vote about the presidency within the 3 months, and that their group will continue as long as this doesn't happen.

The itélé reporter said that lot of Fillon and Copé MPs were actively speaking together after Tabarot announcement though.

Earlier in the day, you had an other UMP 'group', the 'non-alignés', which is, lol, the same French name than...


That's a group that want to be neither Copé, nor Fillon, but they are 'unionist', want to keep the unity of the party, it's led by Bruno Le maire...



...and Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet...



...who are the biggest figureheads of the young guard of that still existing stuff, they can also be seen as the most constructive figureheads, in this whole mess, and politically too. Interesting to notice, they would be the less inclined people of the party to follow Copé populistic positions toward far-right, some of Sarkozy stances when he was president were already hard to swallow for them. Juppé is said as being part of them. It's kinda the 'centrists of the UMP'. Globally they'd be more Fillon than Copé politically I'd say. Lol, I'm hearing Apparu, part of this group, still calling for the glorious referendum right now...

What can be interesting is that this group is about 50 MPs.

So you have the 68-70 who are already behind Fillon and apparently to follow him till Nouvelle-Calédonie.

Those 50 MPs, who are neutral, and who would hardly be in line with Copé positions but who are still calling for unity. You can't know about the solidity of this group though.

And then it would make 77 MPs who can be definitely pro-Copés.

Earlier in the day, you had a vote in the UMP Sénat group, 112 UMP Sénateurs out of 120 have voted to follow Fillon line, and to ask for a new vote for the presidency.

As a journalist say seems we are in a:

BALKANIZATION!...of the UMP. They should beware before using this word, because having a Balkanic war in a party with Balkanys, dangerous.

There we are...

Totally blocked...

No Sarkozy intervention so far...
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Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]
tsionebreicruoc
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #149 on: November 28, 2012, 11:44:58 AM »

And let's try to see how people enjoy all of this:



Made by TNS-Sofres-Sopra Group for Le Figaro

The question is: 'Do you wish such or such plays a major role into politics?'

'Sympathisants UMP' is not UMP militants, it's wider than that, those who sympathize with UMP.

'Ensemble de Français' is all French.
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