SENATE BILL: The 'DREAM' Act (Law'd)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 18, 2024, 09:52:57 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  SENATE BILL: The 'DREAM' Act (Law'd)
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 ... 12
Author Topic: SENATE BILL: The 'DREAM' Act (Law'd)  (Read 15624 times)
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,130
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2012, 03:47:47 PM »

Aye


Scott, does the amendment in your view punish students for taking electives? I can't see how any self respecting high school wouldn't teach these core areas. I am a little confused here as to how it impacts electives.

I'm mainly referring to Hagrid's concern.  One student might take four history classes, while another might take one.  Others might take four or five science classes which are more difficult to get high marks in.  Basically, it would be difficult to implement a uniform policy like this since a lot of schools operate differently and offer unique choices.
Logged
Franzl
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,254
Germany


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2012, 03:51:57 PM »

NAY
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,477
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2012, 07:13:20 PM »

I have no objections to the switch of sponsorship.

Nay on the amendment.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,717
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2012, 01:04:09 PM »

Nay

Scott pretty clearly outlined the reasons for my objection. I've mentioned them before. I just can't support an overly complex set of criteria that favours students choosing to tailor their coursework to a certain field of study. I think there should definitely be a GPA requirement, but we can't delve into the exact specifics of what their high school career should look like. I could understand mandating a certain level of achievement in English courses, but that's about it.
Logged
Sbane
sbane
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,302


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2012, 08:02:08 PM »

Nay
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #105 on: October 27, 2012, 12:31:55 AM »

This will end tomorrow.


We should start working craft an exceptable education standard then.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #106 on: October 28, 2012, 12:15:34 AM »

Vote on Amendment 51:16

Aye (2): Ben and NC Yankee
Nay (5): Averroës Nix, Franzl, HagridoftheDeep, Marokai Blue and sbane
Abstain (1): Redalgo

Successor changed voted of predecessor Abstain => NAY (1): Scott
Vacant Seats (2): Bacon King and NVTownsend

The amendment has failed.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #107 on: October 28, 2012, 12:16:53 AM »

Start talking people. Who support's Hagrid's idea, who opposes it? Are there alternative standards possibilities that have support?
Logged
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,130
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #108 on: October 28, 2012, 12:28:51 AM »
« Edited: October 28, 2012, 12:44:53 AM by Governor Scott »

I just want the bill to have standards to ensure that immigrants work to have a successful academic life so that they won't end up trapped in poverty as a consequence of their disadvantaged starts here in Atlasia.  (Not sure if I already explained that part...)

On another note, I'd advise the Senate to draw up a comprehensive plan that addresses the issue of immigration entirely, and not just one for those who are already here.  This bill may not be amnesty-related, but it still doesn't set any official immigration standards or simplify the process for potential legal migrants.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #109 on: October 28, 2012, 12:51:18 AM »

I just want the bill to have standards to ensure that immigrants work to have a successful academic life so that they won't end up trapped in poverty as a consequence of their disadvantaged starts here in Atlasia.  (Not sure if I already explained that part...)

^ This. The stated goal of the RL Dream act is the same, though certain versions are defficient, an all to common occurance of "Say one thing, do another" on immigration policy in general.

On another note, I'd advise the Senate to draw up a comprehensive plan that addresses the issue of immigration entirely, and not just one for those who are already here.  This bill may not be amnesty-related, but it still doesn't set any official immigration standards or simplify the process for potential legal migrants.

Are you suggesting that as a seperate legislative effort or as a part of this? As a seperate legislative effort, I would be willing to work on crafting parts of that.
Logged
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,130
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #110 on: October 28, 2012, 12:57:42 AM »

Either's fine, really, but a separate bill might be a bit more appropriate depending on how significant it is.  I was surprised to go on the wiki and discover that after all these years, the Senate never got around to crafting an immigration policy.  I consider the DREAM Act a modest start.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #111 on: October 28, 2012, 01:21:43 AM »

Either's fine, really, but a separate bill might be a bit more appropriate depending on how significant it is.  I was surprised to go on the wiki and discover that after all these years, the Senate never got around to crafting an immigration policy.  I consider the DREAM Act a modest start.

It is Ebowed's fault. Tongue For some reason in 2007, the left got it in its head that Amnesty was a fire and forget it weapon on immigration reform. In fact dealing with those already here is only a small piece of a big pie. And direct, mass amnesty is the most counterproductive immigration policy any fool ever dreamed up.

Or maybe he was just lazy. Tongue Yea probably that. Wink I really hope he pops in here because of this post. If he does, do I win something?
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #112 on: October 29, 2012, 12:49:20 AM »

Hagrid, Ben, the rest?


I must commend you guys on the most intense and substantive debate on this topic of educational standards in this bill? It is trully amazing that such engagement was possible, never before have I seen such interest and involvement...

...I wish you lazy losers! Tongue
Logged
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,130
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #113 on: October 29, 2012, 12:52:27 AM »

If no one has any ideas, it might be the time to move to a final vote. Wink

(Not that I'm the sponsor, or anything...)
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #114 on: October 29, 2012, 09:57:49 AM »

I have nothing else to add.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #115 on: October 30, 2012, 12:52:34 AM »
« Edited: October 30, 2012, 01:04:01 AM by Senator North Carolina Yankee »

Quote from: Restricted
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #116 on: October 30, 2012, 12:54:47 AM »

cost estimate:

$.5 billion    administration, biometric systems
$.6 billion    military pay
$2.5  billion    public services (federal)
$2.1  billion    public services (regional)
-$1.1 billion    tax revenues (federal)
-$.6 billion    tax revenues (regional)

$ 4 billion net expenses  ($2.5 B federal, $1.5 B regional)
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderator
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #117 on: October 30, 2012, 01:04:46 AM »

Quote from: Restricted
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Sponsor Feedback: Unstated
Status: Pending
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,717
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #118 on: October 30, 2012, 11:48:24 AM »

Sorry for my lack of discussion on educational standards, but I just don't think the specifics are necessary. I'm not sure on the equivalent in the United Stat—ahem, Atlasia—but here, our provincial Ministries of Education set the necessary coursework for students. Every student in Ontario must take English through grade 12. Every student must take math through grade 11. Every student must take science through grade 10. I figure the "Ministry" requirements for graduation in the Atlasian regions are good enough benchmarks for our illegals. The general GPA requirement will ensure that we're extending this bill to hardworking students.
Logged
Franzl
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,254
Germany


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #119 on: October 30, 2012, 11:57:50 AM »
« Edited: October 30, 2012, 12:33:20 PM by Senator Franzl »

Quote from: Restricted
You must be logged in to read this quote.

I propose this amendment as a substitute.
Logged
Franzl
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,254
Germany


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #120 on: October 30, 2012, 12:01:23 PM »

I would appreciate some discussion on this. If the GPA is something you absolutely require (I think it's absurd, but most here seem to think differently), can we at least discuss the suspension rule? Are we seriously saying one suspension at any point as a teenager is something that should decide over whether that person can become a citizen of Atlasia? Seriously?

The medical examinations seem wrong to me...but the submission of biometric data is really wrong. For what purpose?
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,717
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #121 on: October 30, 2012, 12:10:30 PM »

My hard-line conservative stance on qualification for amnesty is that "it shouldn't be simple." Maybe that's heartless, but this is a huge privilege to extend, and I'm kind of surprised I'm even at the table at all. I really think there should be a general GPA requirement. I'm not against the "no-suspensions" rule. I have little opinion on medical requirements, but I'm not against them as an additional hoop to jump through.
Logged
Franzl
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,254
Germany


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #122 on: October 30, 2012, 12:18:33 PM »

My hard-line conservative stance on qualification for amnesty is that "it shouldn't be simple." Maybe that's heartless, but this is a huge privilege to extend, and I'm kind of surprised I'm even at the table at all. I really think there should be a general GPA requirement. I'm not against the "no-suspensions" rule. I have little opinion on medical requirements, but I'm not against them as an additional hoop to jump through.

We shouldn't be creating hoops that people need to jump through. Any restrictions we decide on should only serve legitimate interests.

Why do we allow birthright citizenship for people born in this country (irrespective of the legal status of their parents), but if they're brought into Atlasia when they're 2 years old, we deny them any chance at citizenship if they got suspended from school once and have a 2.9 GPA in high school. And then we force them to submit biometric information as an "additional hoop to jump through"? You think this is alright?
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,717
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -4.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #123 on: October 30, 2012, 12:28:37 PM »

Nothing is preventing them from going back home and getting in line the way they were supposed to. Like I said, I'm not against the "no-suspension" rule. And I phrased it that way on purpose: If it was removed, I would probably still vote for the legislation. I'm just not going to be the one to amend the bill. Because yes, I do think it's all right.

I do still think there should be a base level of academic achievement.

Soon we'll get parents bringing children over to Atlasia just because they know the kids will get amnesty. We can't reward that, whether the children asked for it or not. The children have their say in the matter by working towards the academic standards outlined in the bill.
Logged
Franzl
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,254
Germany


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #124 on: October 30, 2012, 12:31:52 PM »

Nothing is preventing them from going back home and getting in line the way they were supposed to. Like I said, I'm not against the "no-suspension" rule. And I phrased it that way on purpose: If it was removed, I would probably still vote for the legislation. I'm just not going to be the one to amend the bill. Because yes, I do think it's all right.

I do still think there should be a base level of academic achievement.

Soon we'll get parents bringing children over to Atlasia just because they know the kids will get amnesty. We can't reward that, whether the children asked for it or not. The children have their say in the matter by working towards the academic standards outlined in the bill.

I still don't see how this is consistent with the principle of birthright citizenship. Can't a woman cross the border to give birth to her child so that the child will automatically not only receive a residency permit but citizenship?

If you're against granting citizenship based on place of birth, than you are at least consistent, even though I think it's bad policy Smiley
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 ... 12  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.048 seconds with 13 queries.