SENATE BILL: The 'DREAM' Act (Law'd)

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Was amnesty afforded to illegal immigrants residing in Atlasia at the time, or amnesty to all illegal immigrants permanently?  Personally, as someone who feels that immigration laws need to be enforced, I oppose amnesty if it's unconditional, but I support a path to citizenship for those who demonstrate appropriate behavior.  That's why the bill I introduced is not intended to create an 'amnesty program' because it requires a lengthy and rigorous process to be eligible for the benefits.  However, if this is already a settled issue, I suppose I should withdraw it.

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Neither of the two immigration-related bills on the wiki appear to grant blanket amnesty.

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https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/Immigration_Reform_Act_of_2007
https://uselectionatlas.org/AFEWIKI/index.php/The_Illegal_Immigration_Act_of_2009

One of these bills might not be even be in effect for the fact that it appears to amend laws that aren't on the books in Atlasia, presumably because the text was copied from some US law.

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Why will this bill cost $25 billion?

It was more of an estimated cost than anything else.  The real DREAM Act was estimated to actually cut costs in the long run.  However, if all pre-2007 illegal immigrants were given amnesty, I'm no longer sure how this bill could be useful...

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Unfriendly.

I'm probably going to motion to table unless Yankee or the SoIA think this bill can accomplish something.

(And just for the record, Hagrid, you wouldn't object unless I considered the amendment friendly. )

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Scott, I would say it’s a very useful bill. Blanket amnesty for pre-2007 illegals would have sent the message that people could come over to this country illegally without any consequences whatsoever, so I expect there must be quite a few illegal immigrants in the Southwest by now.

In all seriousness though, the bill can’t hurt. I’d change the price tag though.

From my understanding, the pre-2007 illegals already have amnesty, so this bill wouldn't change that.  The only people this would affect are those who illegally migrated to the United States in the past five years, so I'm not sure if the benefits outweigh the costs.  The price tag will definitely be reduced, but I think the GM should give us an estimate.

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Nay.

I will definitely withdraw support and sponsorship for the bill if this amendment passes.

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Amendment:

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I figured this amendment would be necessary to discourage potential abuse of the system.

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This amendment defeats the purpose of the entire bill.  I urge senators who have not yet voted to oppose this.

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There should be a GPA that's high enough so that beneficiaries have the incentive to not only get the education, but do well in getting the education so that they may go to a respectable college and not put themselves (and likely their families) in an endless cycle of poverty that will often result.  I can support a slight reduction in the GPA requirement, but not the removal of it.  Ben's amendment is friendly.

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There should be a GPA that's high enough so that beneficiaries have the incentive to not only get the education, but do well in getting the education so that they may go to a respectable college and not put themselves (and likely their families) in an endless cycle of poverty that will often result.  I can support a slight reduction in the GPA requirement, but not the removal of it.  Ben's amendment is friendly.

This is an unreasonable and discriminatory requirement. I may still vote for the final bill despite that, but I very strongly disagree.

There is nothing discriminatory about the requirement at all.  I find that claim highly ironic, given what this bill aims to do.  If the bill doesn't provide a strong incentive for immigrants to perform exceptionally well in high school, it won't serve its purpose and they will be less likely to have successful lives or benefit at all from the system.  This is an issue that should be addressed.  Again, I am willing to lower the GPA requirement or, if possible, measure the achievements using a different method -- I, personally, am a tad pessimistic about the credibility of grades in the first place -- but we need to use what we've got.

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It's pretty vague. High schools have core history classes and optional history classes. This language would not account for the fact that one student might take one history class and another might take four. What if one student took a ton of math or science classes, which are often more difficult to get a high mark in?

It's harder to standardize the specifics. I think we should just keep a generic GPA requirement.

Good point, I didn't consider this.  This type of assessment will be difficult since not all high schools are uniform in terms of classes and electives.

Sorry Ben, but the amendment is unfriendly.

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Friendly, of course.

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Aye.  This is a crucial part of the legislation that I feel must be included in order for it to be practical.

Thanks, Shua, though I'm not sure if the estimate would change if this amendment were to pass.  We also need to determine if costs would actually be reduced, if not now, but in the long run, as the real DREAM Act was estimated to do.  Do you think this bill is capable of doing that or can be changed in a way so that it would do that?

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If the amendment doesn't pass, then essentially this bill will create a de facto open border policy and therefore we would be demonstrating a lack of interest in enforcing our laws rather than in giving people another chance.  The system will already be in place 'for all' in the sense that it will be there for all undocumented immigrants currently living in Atlasia.  I understand if there is a need to simplify the process for those who aspire to migrate here, and would support changes to the bill that would do this, but we cannot simply create an open border policy by not putting any kind of restrictions on this.  Perhaps those who don't like this amendment can offer an alternative or a compromise on this?  I should mention that originally I was going to include provisions for enhanced border security, but I decided against it because I doubted that it would pass given the nature of the Senate.  The fact that we can't agree on a modest proposal like this is very disappointing.

I urge the senators that have already voted nay to reconsider, and I hope those that have not yet voted are in the affirmative on this.  I will work for the defeat of this bill if it ends up detracting from its principles the way those in the far-left apparently want it to do.

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FTR, it's not really that I was "pandering" to anyone per se, but I just proposed what we have now for practical reasons since, as we can all plainly see, immigration policies aren't particularly easy to pass in this body if they have the slightest regulations or conditions attached, kind of like abortion.

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Looking at that now, those provisions are a little unspecific.  I'll amend the bill so that they are removed-

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May I nominate Senator Ben to be a cosponsor for this bill?

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Assuming the rules haven't, in fact, changed, I will motion to withdraw the legislation.

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I'm kind of on the fence on this one.  While I agree with the amendment's ideals, I think it might be somewhat difficult to apply this to schools that offer certain electives.  For now, I will abstain.

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Aye


Scott, does the amendment in your view punish students for taking electives? I can't see how any self respecting high school wouldn't teach these core areas. I am a little confused here as to how it impacts electives.

I'm mainly referring to Hagrid's concern.  One student might take four history classes, while another might take one.  Others might take four or five science classes which are more difficult to get high marks in.  Basically, it would be difficult to implement a uniform policy like this since a lot of schools operate differently and offer unique choices.

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I just want the bill to have standards to ensure that immigrants work to have a successful academic life so that they won't end up trapped in poverty as a consequence of their disadvantaged starts here in Atlasia.  (Not sure if I already explained that part...)

On another note, I'd advise the Senate to draw up a comprehensive plan that addresses the issue of immigration entirely, and not just one for those who are already here.  This bill may not be amnesty-related, but it still doesn't set any official immigration standards or simplify the process for potential legal migrants.

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Either's fine, really, but a separate bill might be a bit more appropriate depending on how significant it is.  I was surprised to go on the wiki and discover that after all these years, the Senate never got around to crafting an immigration policy.  I consider the DREAM Act a modest start.

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If no one has any ideas, it might be the time to move to a final vote.

(Not that I'm the sponsor, or anything...)

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The Senate should move this to a final vote ASAP before more people lax the standards beyond reason.