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| |-+  International General Discussion (Moderators: Peter, afleitch)
| | |-+  Is the papacy an elective monarchy or a presidency for life?
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Question: Is the papacy an elective monarchy or a presidency for life?
Elective monarchy   -25 (78.1%)
Presidency for life   -7 (21.9%)
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Total Voters: 32

Author Topic: Is the papacy an elective monarchy or a presidency for life?  (Read 764 times)
Governor Varavour
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« on: October 05, 2012, 10:58:47 pm »
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Of course, the proper answer is "neither- it's a sui generis post", but if you had to compare to something, would it be one or the other? Yes, the pope might have worn a crown, robes, and carries an ordinal, but if Obama wore a crown and was known as "His Elective Majesty, President Barack I", would it really be any different. The papacy today is a post elected from one's fellows, many of which come from ordinary backgrounds and rose to their position through a process accessible by any man, not through heredity as many other elective monarchies are/were (HRE, Malaysia). The pope today is far more "presidential" in his role- leading an organization actively- than most monarchs.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2012, 12:25:58 am »
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The difference is in their moral status. The President is a magistrate chosen by a group of people to perform duties on their behalf. The Monarch is considered as an individual placed above the others by a transcendent legitimacy. Thus, papacy clearly falls into the monarchic category.
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« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2012, 02:07:22 pm »
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The difference is in their moral status. The President is a magistrate chosen by a group of people to perform duties on their behalf. The Monarch is considered as an individual placed above the others by a transcendent legitimacy. Thus, papacy clearly falls into the monarchic category.
This
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Хahar
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2012, 06:38:01 pm »
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Yes, the pope might have worn a crown, robes, and carries an ordinal, but if Obama wore a crown and was known as "His Elective Majesty, President Barack I", would it really be any different.

In that case, he would be a monarch.
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2012, 06:45:19 pm »
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While like other royals it has allowed itself surprisingly(?) comfortably into the contemporary epoch, the papacy still fundamentally remains a medieval and renaissance-epoch institution in its vision of sovereignty (though out of politics it has to quiet down that universalism stuff) so therefore unsurprisingly it can't be remotely considered republican in any way. One only has to look at the ridiculous way (with the ceremony included too) the pope is selected to see that.
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Governor Varavour
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2012, 08:15:13 pm »
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Yes, the pope might have worn a crown, robes, and carries an ordinal, but if Obama wore a crown and was known as "His Elective Majesty, President Barack I", would it really be any different.

In that case, he would be a monarch.

But are those just not just superficial trappings? Nicolae Ceausescu carried a sceptre. Did that mean Ceausescu was a monarch?
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2012, 08:18:39 pm »
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A form of elective monarchy for life, elected by the College of Cardinals, closer to an absolute monarch than a constitutional monarch.
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MooMooMoo
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 12:38:44 pm »
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How does the Office of the Papacy actually compare to the  office of the Holy Roman Emperor?
Wasn't the Holy Roman Emperor basically elected by a peerage to be some sort of divine arbiter of power?
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