Germany moves closer to banning the NPD
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  Germany moves closer to banning the NPD
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Tender Branson
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« on: December 05, 2012, 02:43:25 PM »

Germany on course to ban far-Right NPD

The interior ministers of the country's 16 states were on Wednesday night expected to recommend outlawing the NPD on the grounds that it promotes a racist, xenophobic, and anti-Semitic agenda in violation of the constitution established after the Second World War.

Banning political parties is an especially sensitive matter in a country still haunted by memories of the Nazi regime's brutal silencing of dissent, but Germany's past has also heightened sensitivities about a lingering extremist minority.

Simmering talk of prohibiting the NPD became widespread following claims last year that a senior NPD official had aided a cell of neo-Nazis calling itself the National Socialist Underground had waged a racist killing spree over nearly a decade.

[The NSU is suspected of killing nine men of immigrant background and a policewoman between 2000 and 2007.]

[Lorenz Caffier, the conservative interior minister of Mecklenburg Vorpommern who chairs the interior ministers' meeting at the Baltic resort of Warnemuende, said he was "very optimistic" that the recommendation would be passed.

"The material we have collected as proof is good and watertight," he told the Ostsee Zeitung daily.]

The opposition Social Democrats have pushed for the ban despite reservations from some conservatives, including Chancellor Angela Merkel.

She wants to be sure that any case is legally sound after an attempt to ban the NPD in 2003 collapsed because government informants were used as witnesses. Supporters of the ban have said most materials for the legal case will be drawn from the public record.

If approved by the ministers, the motion then requires approval from state governors and the upper house of parliament. It would then head to the constitutional court, where the NPD has pledged to oppose it vigorously.

Mrs Merkel has said she is worried the NPD could be strengthened if a second bid failed. Other opponents argue that a ban could push the NPD underground and make it more dangerous.

Otto Fricke, a senior member of the Free Democratic Party, a coalition partner of Mrs Merkel's CDU, told the Daily Telegraph: "My party's view is that will not work. If you force them underground they are going to fight in a different way, you have to fight them on a proper political playing field.

"We say fight extremists with strong arguments, fight them by showing how stupid they are, but don't fight them by forbidding them and pushing them underground."

Mr Fricke, a government whip, was not convinced that it could be proven that the NDP promoted an "anti-constitutional subversive agenda", as required by law for it to be banned.

[Josef Joffe, publisher of the Die Zeit weekly newspaper, said: "I am not sure you can prove a subversive agenda. We know they are nasty guys, but that's not enough."]

More radical than populist anti-immigrant parties in France, Britain and the Netherlands, the NPD has seats in two state assemblies in eastern Germany and receives around 1 million euros per year in taxpayers' funding.

Opponents of a ban note that its membership has however fallen to 6,300 in 2011 and remains marginalized at a national level. In the most recent federal elections in 2009, the party won only 1.5 percent of the vote, well below the 5 percent needed to sit in parliament.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9725237/Germany-on-course-to-ban-far-Right-NPD.html
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Franzl
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2012, 02:45:16 PM »

Wonder if they'll make it this time.

For the record, I think party bans are generally counterproductive.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2012, 02:48:19 PM »

Wonder if they'll make it this time.

For the record, I think party bans are generally counterproductive.

This. It's like playing whack-a-mole IMO.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2012, 02:49:02 PM »
« Edited: December 05, 2012, 02:53:05 PM by Tender Branson »

As much as I want them destroyed, I think a ban would be bad - like the article says. Better have them visible with almost non-existing election results than underground and without much control. I would only be for a ban if the underground scene could be infiltrated and controlled easily (which it is probably not, as evidenced by the NSU). So, better keep the party and hold the leaders accountable so the public remains aware that they are idiotic Nazis with an inhumane ideology.
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Franzl
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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 02:50:14 PM »

Wonder if they'll make it this time.

For the record, I think party bans are generally counterproductive.

This. It's like playing whack-a-mole IMO.

Yes. Nazis exist, unfortunately. And it's probably better that we see what they're up to as well.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 02:58:16 PM »

For the record, has an NPD candidate ever come close to winning anywhere ever?
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Franzl
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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 03:02:13 PM »

For the record, has an NPD candidate ever come close to winning anywhere ever?

They almost got a mayor in a rural part of Saxony, I believe. And they're represented in Saxony and M-P at state level.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2012, 03:40:35 PM »

This will be counter productive to say the least.
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minionofmidas
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2012, 05:22:40 PM »

The NPD's shtick is to have a foot in the official party system, with standing for election, receiving government monies etc pp, and a foot in the kind of decentral informal structures some of you seem to assume would only spring up once the party's gone. They're there already, with only partial overlap with the official party in personnel. Oh, and a foot in the Verfassungsschutz. It was getting hard to tell just who was watching and inflitrating whom - really it's more a symbiotic relationship than anything else. Which is also the real story behind why the NSU trio were ignored.

Nor did the parties banned in previous German history (all two of them) exactly play whack-a-mole, either.
There is the possibility of a more respectable outfit becoming the most active party on the far right, I suppose, and one that nobody will want to or be able to ban.

All that said, obviously I see the democracy-theoretical issues with banning parties same as everybody else. Just saying it's certainly not that simple.
One final note: A ban trial is going to take years and certainly could end as much of a defeat for the Government as the last one - I for one am going to be hard to convince the Landesverfassungschutze learned their lesson.
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 04:58:45 AM »

I don't favor outlawing any parties, but I wouldn't exactly oppose forcing certain parties in certain countries to change their names.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 07:29:44 AM »

I don't favor outlawing any parties, but I wouldn't exactly oppose forcing certain parties in certain countries to change their names.

Like the Literal Democrats?
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2012, 08:16:57 AM »

I don't favor outlawing any parties, but I wouldn't exactly oppose forcing certain parties in certain countries to change their names.

Like the Literal Democrats?

I was thinking more along the lines of the Liberal Party of Australia....
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2012, 11:53:40 AM »

I don't favor outlawing any parties, but I wouldn't exactly oppose forcing certain parties in certain countries to change their names.

Like the Literal Democrats?

I was thinking more along the lines of the Liberal Party of Australia....

or the Social Democratic Party of Portugal. Tongue
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Person Man
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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2012, 12:31:12 PM »

Best the NDP keep trying to use the Democratic process than going the way of the Turner Diaries.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2012, 01:52:30 PM »

New N24/Emnid poll:

67% of Germans want the NPD banned
21% of Germans want the NPD not banned

http://www.presseportal.de/pm/13399/2378301/n24-emnid-umfrage-zu-npd-verbot-mehrheit-der-deutschen-fuer-npd-verbot-zahl-der-verbots/gn
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2012, 02:21:05 PM »

Another poll by Infratest dimap for the ARD shows:

73% of Germans want the NPD banned
22% of Germans want the NPD not banned

http://www.gelnhaeuser-tageblatt.de/nachrichten/politik/deutschland/12656136.htm
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2012, 03:38:57 PM »

I agree with what has been said above, banning far-right parties is usually counterproductive.

Germany is blessed that its only far-right parties are neonazi outfits with no chance to play a prominent role in politics, rather than "modern", populist far-right parties with a much wider appeal.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2012, 04:41:51 PM »

Meh, I believe it when it happens. We're debating a potential NPD ban for how long now, 15 years?
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