Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 31, 2014, 03:26:52 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Election Archive
| |-+  2012 Elections (Moderators: Mr. Morden, Bacon King, Sheriff Buford TX Justice)
| | |-+  Time to play the Mormon card?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Time to play the Mormon card?  (Read 944 times)
Mister Twister
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 512


View Profile
« on: October 08, 2012, 01:58:55 am »
Ignore

I think so. With Obama in freefall in the polls, the Democrats have no choice
Logged
Beet
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16062


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2012, 02:03:29 am »
Ignore

Troll. Roll Eyes
Logged

Lowly Griff
Adam Griffin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5965
Greece


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2012, 02:17:12 am »
Ignore

I think so. With Obama in freefall in the polls, the Democrats have no choice

I know this is a troll thread, but whatever.

It would have been a better tactic to use during the primaries to get someone like Santorum and Gingrich nominated, making the general a cakewalk. It's too volatile to try that route in October. Now, if Obama were down by 5-7 points in Ohio...

I think there's a valid case within progressive politics to criticize Mormonism. It heavily involves itself with affecting the outcome in elections and policy, with a dedicated, effective group that actively attempts and has succeeded in some cases in implementing their agenda. Seeing as how their worldview is being brought into politics and seeing how it is pretty antithetical to progressive politics, I think it becomes a valid target. Mitt Romney, in turn, is definitely one of the biggest - if not the biggest - individual contributor to the Mormon Church, which then uses that money in part to fund their moral beliefs that just so happen to be shared in many aspect by Mitt Romney.
Logged

Maybe you would have the money if you
  • stopped eating out everyday
  • made due with a minimum wage job for the time being while looking for one with higher pay
  • stopped paying for an apartment you don't live in

Roll Eyes
Niemeyerite
JulioMadrid
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6686
Spain


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2012, 04:23:37 am »
Ignore

Shut up, BritishDixie.
Logged

My evolution (by The Political Matrix):
E: -6.06 -> -6.97 -> -6.97 -> -8.13 -> -7.29 -> -8.26 -> -8.65 -> -7.03
S: -6.78 -> -6.09 -> -7.30 -> -7.13 -> -8.09 -> -8.35 -> -9.04 -> -8.61
oakvale
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9180
Ireland, Republic of
Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -4.00

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2012, 05:50:27 am »
Ignore

Can we ban this moron yet?
Logged

President John Hay
clarence
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4731
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2012, 05:53:46 am »
Ignore

I think so. With Obama in freefall in the polls, the Democrats have no choice

I know this is a troll thread, but whatever.

It would have been a better tactic to use during the primaries to get someone like Santorum and Gingrich nominated, making the general a cakewalk. It's too volatile to try that route in October. Now, if Obama were down by 5-7 points in Ohio...

I think there's a valid case within progressive politics to criticize Mormonism. It heavily involves itself with affecting the outcome in elections and policy, with a dedicated, effective group that actively attempts and has succeeded in some cases in implementing their agenda. Seeing as how their worldview is being brought into politics and seeing how it is pretty antithetical to progressive politics, I think it becomes a valid target. Mitt Romney, in turn, is definitely one of the biggest - if not the biggest - individual contributor to the Mormon Church, which then uses that money in part to fund their moral beliefs that just so happen to be shared in many aspect by Mitt Romney.
I am disappointed that some one as reasonable as you could support attacking a man over his faith... I bet you would've been outraged has McCain gone after Rev Wright
Logged

asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12697


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 06:38:06 am »
Ignore

This is a terrible idea.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
IDS Ex-Speaker Ben Kenobi
Ben Kenobi
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2626
United States


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 06:39:02 am »
Ignore

Quote
It would have been a better tactic to use during the primaries to get someone like Santorum and Gingrich nominated, making the general a cakewalk. It's too volatile to try that route in October. Now, if Obama were down by 5-7 points in Ohio...

Obama wanted the weaker challenger - Romney.
Logged

"By not voting, you would let someone win who wants to destroy the regions, raise taxes, remove guns from the street, nationalize transit, expand abortion coverage, a gut the military." - Hagrid
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 19090
United States


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 06:39:19 am »
Ignore

Even though they did it to Kerry and Obama, we should refrain.
Logged
Mister Twister
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 512


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 07:09:37 am »
Ignore

Can we ban this moron yet?

How witty of you. Perhaps we should ban you for being a big fat whiny baby.
Logged
oakvale
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9180
Ireland, Republic of
Political Matrix
E: -0.77, S: -4.00

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 07:11:01 am »
Ignore

Can we ban this moron yet?

How witty of you. Perhaps we should ban you for being a big fat whiny baby.

I'm not trying to be witty! I'm just suggesting you should be banned for being a useless troll who pollutes the forum with garbage posts. Smiley

And also that you're BritishDixie. That too. Smiley
Logged

pbrower2a
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 10253
United States


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 09:04:31 am »
Ignore

Absolutely not. The only way in which Democrats can go after Mitt Romney on religious matters is by showing behaviors either irrelevant to or contradictory to Mormon teachings.

Samuel Butler notwithstanding, the last refuge of a political scoundrel is religious bigotry. As a liberal I have no use for Mormon-bashing. Sure, the religion has some cranky beliefs... but so do some others.

How do we know that the Democratic frontrunner and eventual nominee for President in 2016 won't be Jewish? I think we know where that is going. It is bad enough that Republicans smear the President as a crypto-Muslim -- but at least that is either falsehood or irrelevancy. 

Religious bigotry degrades life, and at worst... kills.
Logged



Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: -7.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.49
Mister Twister
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 512


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 09:16:17 am »
Ignore

Can we ban this moron yet?

How witty of you. Perhaps we should ban you for being a big fat whiny baby.

I'm not trying to be witty! I'm just suggesting you should be banned for being a useless troll who pollutes the forum with garbage posts. Smiley

And also that you're BritishDixie. That too. Smiley

I see. This is an unfortunate development because I held you in such high regard. It looks like we aren't going to be friends then. Henceforth, you are an enemy of mine on this forum.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 09:19:11 am by Mister Twister »Logged
stegosaurus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 526
United States


P
View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 09:18:02 am »
Ignore

Pleeeease do. I would love to take this October off.
Logged

liberty or death.
Zioneer
PioneerProgress
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3857
United States


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 09:41:29 am »
Ignore

Can we ban this moron yet?

If we haven't banned the rest, then I don't think he'll be banned.

As for the actual topic of the thread, no, the Obama campaign won't do that, because it's a stupid strategy. It'll hurt them more than it hurts the Romney campaign, because even if voters are wary of Romney, nobody likes religious bigotry.

And though I'm a Mormon leftist myself, even I know that the Romney campaign will play it as it really is; an attack on Mormonism by the secular left. In my opinion, the religious right will still be the greater threat to my faith, but "playing the Mormon card" will rightfully be seen as a direct attack by the secular left.

Besides, you can more easily attack Romney on his defiance of leftist economic teachings in the Book of Mormon; there are at least 10 verses which specifically mention rich people who ignore the plight of the poor and how they're sinners for not helping the poor. There's even a positive example of higher taxation helping the poor in the BoM. So you can just use the LDS scriptures itself to attack Romney, rather than attacking his religion to attack him.
Logged
angus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15119
View Profile
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2012, 10:47:15 am »
Ignore

Time to play the Mormon card?

Definitely.  

And it's Romney who should be playing it.  Not without cause, but let someone mention that he's a Mormon and then let him say, "Yes, I'm a Mormon."  Get it out in the open, then dare the opponent to be a bigot about it.  Just like he did, successfully, in the primaries.

Remember at the Values Voters Summit, when the pastor who introduced Rick Perry to the assembly told reporters that “born-again followers of Christ should always prefer a competent Christian” for the presidency and dismissed Mormonism as a pseudo-Christian cult, the fallout was rougher for him than for Romney.  It turned out to be a blessing for Romney because it gave him a a chance to cry “bigotry” and it prompted many denunciations from prominent conservative politicians and activists.  It forced Perry’s campaign on the defensive, didn't it.

Also, it's good for the country to help us get over our prejudices.  At one time, folks were reluctant to elect women, Catholics, Jews, and black people.  For the most part, we're past that sort of prejudice, but for whatever reason, about 20% of voters have consistently over the past 40 years have a bias against voting for Mormons.  It's time to get over that, and Romney could prove helpful in that regard, even if he loses.
 
Logged
Zioneer
PioneerProgress
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3857
United States


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2012, 09:13:32 pm »
Ignore

Time to play the Mormon card?

Definitely.  

And it's Romney who should be playing it.  Not without cause, but let someone mention that he's a Mormon and then let him say, "Yes, I'm a Mormon."  Get it out in the open, then dare the opponent to be a bigot about it.  Just like he did, successfully, in the primaries.

Remember at the Values Voters Summit, when the pastor who introduced Rick Perry to the assembly told reporters that “born-again followers of Christ should always prefer a competent Christian” for the presidency and dismissed Mormonism as a pseudo-Christian cult, the fallout was rougher for him than for Romney.  It turned out to be a blessing for Romney because it gave him a a chance to cry “bigotry” and it prompted many denunciations from prominent conservative politicians and activists.  It forced Perry’s campaign on the defensive, didn't it.

Also, it's good for the country to help us get over our prejudices.  At one time, folks were reluctant to elect women, Catholics, Jews, and black people.  For the most part, we're past that sort of prejudice, but for whatever reason, about 20% of voters have consistently over the past 40 years have a bias against voting for Mormons.  It's time to get over that, and Romney could prove helpful in that regard, even if he loses.
 

I agree; I'd love a Democratic Mormon president, and though that's unlikely, Romney's one good point in this election for me is that he could potentially pave the way for a future leftist Mormon president, ala some kind of Mo Udall type.
Logged
Comrade Funk
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 638
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -6.26

P

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2012, 09:20:11 pm »
Ignore

Can we ban this moron yet?

How witty of you. Perhaps we should ban you for being a big fat whiny baby.

I'm not trying to be witty! I'm just suggesting you should be banned for being a useless troll who pollutes the forum with garbage posts. Smiley

And also that you're BritishDixie. That too. Smiley

I see. This is an unfortunate development because I held you in such high regard. It looks like we aren't going to be friends then. Henceforth, you are an enemy of mine on this forum.
Logged

We need a public option

Quote from: President Harry S. Truman
“We should resolve now that the health of this nation is a national concern; that financial barriers in the way of attaining health shall be removed
Nagas
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1776
United States


Political Matrix
E: -2.58, S: -7.65

View Profile
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2012, 09:21:17 pm »
Ignore

Shut up, BritishDixie.

Great minds think alike. Cheesy
Logged

realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6673
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -0.13, S: 4.52

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2012, 09:31:15 pm »
Ignore

With Obama in freefall in the polls

There's where you first went wrong.
Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
Lowly Griff
Adam Griffin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5965
Greece


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2012, 09:37:30 pm »
Ignore

I am disappointed that some one as reasonable as you could support attacking a man over his faith... I bet you would've been outraged has McCain gone after Rev Wright

It's not that I personally support going after random religions, but rather I am addressing it from a strategic point of campaigning. If they were going to do such a thing, then it should have been done in primary season so as to avoid as much potential backlash as possible.

I do, however, think that if a church or religious group engages in overt and official political action, funneling their money and manpower into campaigns in order to affect the result (most notably, Proposition 8 in California), then that group could hypothetically be viewed as more of a political entity than a religious one. It is at that point - and particularly when you consider that the religious/moral elements are being woven into the political dialogue - that criticism of the values and actions of the Mormon Church can be legitimately discussed in political terms.
Logged

Maybe you would have the money if you
  • stopped eating out everyday
  • made due with a minimum wage job for the time being while looking for one with higher pay
  • stopped paying for an apartment you don't live in

Roll Eyes
tmthforu94
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18488
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2012, 09:42:10 pm »
Ignore

Quote
It would have been a better tactic to use during the primaries to get someone like Santorum and Gingrich nominated, making the general a cakewalk. It's too volatile to try that route in October. Now, if Obama were down by 5-7 points in Ohio...

Obama wanted the weaker challenger - Romney.
Santorum would not have been able to debate Obama - he'd be trailing by 5-6 points right now. Gingrich would have defeated Obama in debates, but I think his favorability numbers would be so low that it wouldn't be near enough for him to catch up.

Romney was the best candidate in the field - he was the only candidate who could at least somewhat please the base while also attract enough moderates. Huntsman would have been great with moderates, but the base would have been furious.
Logged


"A life is not important except in the impact it has on other lives."
-Jackie Robinson
Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18805
United States
View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 08, 2012, 09:45:53 pm »
Ignore

Can we ban this moron yet?

How witty of you. Perhaps we should ban you for being a big fat whiny baby.

I'm not trying to be witty! I'm just suggesting you should be banned for being a useless troll who pollutes the forum with garbage posts. Smiley

And also that you're BritishDixie. That too. Smiley

I see. This is an unfortunate development because I held you in such high regard. It looks like we aren't going to be friends then. Henceforth, you are an enemy of mine on this forum.

lol
Logged
Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4981
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2012, 09:56:52 pm »
Ignore

I am disappointed that some one as reasonable as you could support attacking a man over his faith... I bet you would've been outraged has McCain gone after Rev Wright

It's not that I personally support going after random religions, but rather I am addressing it from a strategic point of campaigning. If they were going to do such a thing, then it should have been done in primary season so as to avoid as much potential backlash as possible.

I do, however, think that if a church or religious group engages in overt and official political action, funneling their money and manpower into campaigns in order to affect the result (most notably, Proposition 8 in California), then that group could hypothetically be viewed as more of a political entity than a religious one. It is at that point - and particularly when you consider that the religious/moral elements are being woven into the political dialogue - that criticism of the values and actions of the Mormon Church can be legitimately discussed in political terms.

Even though the Mormons aren't on your side at the moment, they may not be so antithetical to progressives in the long run. After all their church does believe in a constant revelation such that their beliefs could change dramatically at some point in the future with very little ramifications. It's much easier for Mormonism to adapt than most Christian sects with a less fluid concept of morality.
Logged

Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18805
United States
View Profile
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2012, 10:01:56 pm »
Ignore

I am disappointed that some one as reasonable as you could support attacking a man over his faith... I bet you would've been outraged has McCain gone after Rev Wright

It's not that I personally support going after random religions, but rather I am addressing it from a strategic point of campaigning. If they were going to do such a thing, then it should have been done in primary season so as to avoid as much potential backlash as possible.

I do, however, think that if a church or religious group engages in overt and official political action, funneling their money and manpower into campaigns in order to affect the result (most notably, Proposition 8 in California), then that group could hypothetically be viewed as more of a political entity than a religious one. It is at that point - and particularly when you consider that the religious/moral elements are being woven into the political dialogue - that criticism of the values and actions of the Mormon Church can be legitimately discussed in political terms.

Even though the Mormons aren't on your side at the moment, they may not be so antithetical to progressives in the long run. After all their church does believe in a constant revelation such that their beliefs could change dramatically at some point in the future with very little ramifications. It's much easier for Mormonism to adapt than most Christian sects with a less fluid concept of morality.

Would that really affect their voting behaviors, though?  I don't think a change in position on a social issue or two (assuming you were referring to that) would necessarily sway Mormons to the left politically in any significant way.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines