Time to play the Mormon card? (user search)
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  Time to play the Mormon card? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Time to play the Mormon card?  (Read 2573 times)
angus
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« on: October 08, 2012, 10:47:15 AM »


Definitely.  

And it's Romney who should be playing it.  Not without cause, but let someone mention that he's a Mormon and then let him say, "Yes, I'm a Mormon."  Get it out in the open, then dare the opponent to be a bigot about it.  Just like he did, successfully, in the primaries.

Remember at the Values Voters Summit, when the pastor who introduced Rick Perry to the assembly told reporters that “born-again followers of Christ should always prefer a competent Christian” for the presidency and dismissed Mormonism as a pseudo-Christian cult, the fallout was rougher for him than for Romney.  It turned out to be a blessing for Romney because it gave him a a chance to cry “bigotry” and it prompted many denunciations from prominent conservative politicians and activists.  It forced Perry’s campaign on the defensive, didn't it.

Also, it's good for the country to help us get over our prejudices.  At one time, folks were reluctant to elect women, Catholics, Jews, and black people.  For the most part, we're past that sort of prejudice, but for whatever reason, about 20% of voters have consistently over the past 40 years have a bias against voting for Mormons.  It's time to get over that, and Romney could prove helpful in that regard, even if he loses.
 
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angus
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 08:28:31 AM »
« Edited: October 09, 2012, 08:51:44 AM by angus »

large and centralised religious institutions... rarely moderate their views too much...

But the Catholic and Anglican churches are political institutions, and the Catholic Church, in particular, does moderate its views.  Frequently, even, relative to the long span of its existence.  It did so especially during the times of empire-building, but still does today.  For example, Latin American bishops are given wide latitude in dealing with the natives.  I have personally stumbled upon some very unorthodox Catholic masses.  Once, in the the department of Solola in central Guatemala, I was hiking through the forest and came upon a clearing where I saw fifty or more people around a fire.  There was a priest in proper seasonal vestments leading a folk mass in a local language, probably Quiche, Kakchikel, or Tsutujil.  Parishoners were throwing stuffed animals into the fires.  I don't speak Quiche, but when I inquired a local explained to me--in Spanish but with the lilting accent of those who grew up speaking the local language and learned Spanish in school--that they were making offerings for their ancestors, or to bless a new baby.  A few years later, in Peru, I found catholic priests overseeing the blessings to Pachamama.  Maybe they weren't overseeing, per se, but they certainly were not looking the other way.  Bottles of fermented grain beverages were poured upon the ground in front of buses about to embark upon hazardous mountain journeys over rough roads, and the idea was that the Great Mother goddess would protect them if she gets enough booze in her to put her in a good mood.  

Closer to home, we see the changes in the church as well.  Just now, I took down from the bookshelf my Handbook for Today's Catholic (Liguori Press, 1978), Baltemore Catechism No. 1 (Tan, 1977), and The New Saint Joseph Catechism (Catholic Book Publishing Co., 1969) and dusted them off.  I looked, but I could not find any reference to homosexuals or homosexuality in any of them.  Why would I look up such a thing in the index anyway?  Why, indeed?  Because nowadays the church has a strong position on homosexuality.  It took up that position probably--some might even argue smartly--as a political move.  For one thing, a number of Irish priests and American priests were suddenly being accused of child molestation.  Such things have probably happened for centuries, but only with a free press and a reasonably educated populace do such reports act as a catalyst for political change.  For another thing, the Episcopalians were beginning to ordain women and liberal men, many of whom had their own feelings about homosexuality which offended older Episcopalians, and the Catholic church found it a convenient time to stage a coup.  I forget the name of it.  It had a fancy-sounding name, like, "The Pastoral Reconciliation" or something, but in the 90s a number of Episcopalian priests, many of whom were married, suddenly became Catholic priests.  In 1969, you had to dig deep to find the church's position on "homosexuality" (if it had any).  In 2012, it's all over the place.  This was a calculated political move.  A moderation, in fact, by a "large and centralized institution."

Back in 1964, Johnny XXIII decided it was time to offer masses in the vulgar languages of the world.  That was pure political expedience.  And the college of cardinals that elected him knew he would push for such changes.  They simply saw the need for change in order to keep up with the world and stay relevant.  Similarly, it decided it needed a liberal pontiff when it elected Karol Wojtyla in 1978.  

Of course, by the time old Karol passed away, in 2005, times had again changed.  Suddenly we're in an age in which the US, the UK, the Europeans, and others are promoting some values which may destabilize "large and centralized institutions."  An age in which "radical Islam" encroaches upon Western values.  And an age in which a global economic recession was about to threaten grave destabilization.  You can be your last dollar that the college of cardinals won't stand by on the sidelines.   They knew it was time for a tougher act, so it elected that old Nazi Joseph Ratzinger as pontiff.  In short order, he had laid out the Church's position on Islamic terrorism, moral relativism, and consumerism.  In no uncertain terms!

Don't be so quick to dismiss the ability of "large and centralized institutions" to moderate their views.  The Catholic Church is a political organization, and it moderates itself as necessary--"pro re nata" if you will--in order to maintain some political power.  No, it will likely never have the political power it had in the good old days of the Templars and the Corps du Tiercelet.  King Henry VIII saw to that, didn't he, but the church knows how to keep itself afloat, precisely by moderating its politics.  

I know all this was a little off topic, but it struck me how demonstrably false the quoted statement was.  You're a smart guy, and you know we couldn't let such a glaring inaccuracy go unnoticed.  Surprise

As for the LDS, I'm not so sure that it's the sort of political body that the Anglican or Catholic churches are.  If anything, the LDS has often been on the wrong side of the law.  In that sense, it isn't unlike the early hippies of the Christian movement, long before they got mixed up with imperial politics.  They're doing their own thing in their own way.  True, the LDS has a hierarchy in a way that the Ephesians and the gnostics never had, but I don't see them as trying to run governments, at least not with the tour de force tactics that the Catholic church has employed.  Romney is just a guy trying to get elected.   You may think him a crook and a liar and a plutocrat.  That's fine, but don't drag the Mormon religion into it.
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angus
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 10:47:12 AM »

... that is not 'moderation' of a position...

I think this is our central disagreement.  I'm not agreeing with what you said, but perhaps with what you meant to say.  Or maybe we need a definition of terms.

We both agree that the church has evolved, both in style as well as substance.  In many cases it was simply a politically expedient move to make it more palatable to the vanquished as it expanded globally.  I call that moderation.  To moderate a point of view means to change it.  The dictionary probably says something like "to moderate means to keep within reasonably limits, or to alter the severity of something..."  If I start with "have no other gods before me" but end up with "hey, lets put up a christmas tree in the chapel because the barbarians will think it's cool and they'll more likely come to Christmas mass" then you should call that a moderation.  Similarly, allowing English, German, and all the rest, to supplant Latin was a moderation.

I also agree that His Holiness Pope Benedict, before he was His Holiness Pope Benedict, had already had some pretty stark views on homosexuality long before anyone in the church started publicizing about it.  In fact, I'd made a point of it:  you have to remember that those cardinals who made him His Holiness knew about his rants before they elected him.  They wanted a hardliner--and not just on homosexuality, but on a host of other issues ranging from consumerism to the "War on Terror" to ecuminism and everything in between.  As for homosexuality, in particular, the Church needed a moderation of its formerly lax attitude that was garnering so much bad publicity.  (Now, we can quibble about the finer points of sociology here, but we needn't:  obviously one should not conflate "homosexuality" with "molestation of altar boys by priests."  You and I probably don't equate those two topics in our own minds, but you can bet that much of the Catholic public does.  This is of central importance here.)  The moderation sought by the Church comes in the form of a changing its seemingly tolerant dealings with "deviant" priests to one intolerant toward them.  This is a form of moderation, no matter how you slice it, because it projects a viewpoint to the public that is more palatable to them.  It is exactly the form of moderation (based on political realities) that the church has been rendering very successfully for about 1700 years.

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