Vice-Presidential Debate Live Commentary Thread

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Hi Jacob, welcome to the forum.

You may not know this, but people enjoy being treated with respect and not being shat on over differences of opinion. You might be interested in remembering that if you hope to endear yourself to anyone other than your mother.

Thanks.

I've been a member here for almost nine years. You've been a member for a little over 6 months. Just because I post sporadically and with much lower frequency than you do doesn't mean that I need an introduction. I've gotten PMs from Dems on here thanking me for standing up to trolls like the one that came on and accused Obama of being a Kenyan Muslim.

So... what you're saying is it took me six months to learn how to get along with rational Democrats, and your nine years of wisdom have not yet taught you to get along with equally rational people in your own party. Good job. Bushie is allowed to have his own positions.

[Eraserhead]

They should really have Biden prepare Obama for his next two debates.

[Jacob]

Just a comment: why would a Northeast Democrat ever care about Democrats winning in Oklahoma? Local Oklahoma Dems he is unlikely to have any sympathy with, and the weaker they are in the national party, the more the national party looks like he'd like it to look. And, of course, if on a presidential level Oklahoma is competitive, it means a landslide of such proportions, that they wouldn't even care about Texas. From the standpoint of a, say, NY Dem, an OK Dem is, sort of, like a Puerto Rican Republican would be from the standpoint of Tom Tancredo - utterly inconsequential.

Bingo. I don't care about Oklahoma state politics. Democrats that can get elected there are very conservative. If they're running for US Senate or Congress, fine. I'll take a Dan Boren in Oklahoma or a Dennis Moore in Kansas any day of the week over an R. They can vote as conservative as they'd like to stay in office. I sent Ben Nelson money in 2006. Very conservative Dem but Senate control was at stake. But in terms of state politics, who cares? GOTV efforts run by a prospective Dem governor are irrelevant because Repubs in Oklahoma will not vote for a Dem for president.

[Vosem]

Tea party reference. And we don't need Oklahoma in national politics. It is a lost cause. I don't care about Oklahoma state politics.

How tolerant and open-minded of you.

You said he's a Southern Democrat that votes Republican.
Most of these folks descend from Yellow Dog Democrats who were supporters of segregation.

I'm descended from CPSU members and support Republicans...

I grew up in the Mississippi Delta before moving away for college, so I know all about it.

Congratulations.

Demographics are not on your side.

Neither are they on yours...

Texas will be a leans Democratic state by 2024 thanks to your party's hard line on undocumented Americans.

Could you explain how exactly Texas will do this?

Obama will win 70% of the Latino vote and 95% of the black vote on November 6th. He'll once again win voters 18-29 and 30-45, and he'll win women.

Yes. But it doesn't mean he'll win.

Your party is increasingly becoming a party of old, white men.

On the contrary; it started off that way, but it's becoming less so. 2010 saw black and Hispanic Republicans elected to Congress and to Governorships; there are now more female Republican Governors than Democrats.

Obama expanded the map in 2008 when he became the first Dem to carry Virginia in almost half a century. Why? Young, college educated voters. Hispanic and black voters.

OK.

[Lief 🗽]

"Sports bar Biden vs. seminar Ryan" (CNN)
"Biden vs. Ryan: No Shy People Onstage" (NYT)
"Biden goes after Ryan in lone VP debate" (Politico)

[Jacob]

Hi Jacob, welcome to the forum.

You may not know this, but people enjoy being treated with respect and not being shat on over differences of opinion. You might be interested in remembering that if you hope to endear yourself to anyone other than your mother.

Thanks.

I've been a member here for almost nine years. You've been a member for a little over 6 months. Just because I post sporadically and with much lower frequency than you do doesn't mean that I need an introduction. I've gotten PMs from Dems on here thanking me for standing up to trolls like the one that came on and accused Obama of being a Kenyan Muslim.

So... what you're saying is it took me six months to learn how to get along with rational Democrats, and your nine years of wisdom have not yet taught you to get along with equally rational people in your own party. Good job. Bushie is allowed to have his own positions.

He is not in my party. He may claim he is, but most Democrats have no interest in self-identified Democrats that vote for Republicans in national elections. Should the Republican Party have cared about Lincoln Chafee? Only to the extent that he gave them Senate control. He serve a purpose. Bushie serves no such purpose. Of course he can hold whatever positions he wants, nice straw man you knocked down. But I certainly don't care what Vosem thinks about electoral strategy. Obama ran on raising taxes and giving health care. He won. He ran as a Democrat, not some triangulator like Clinton. So tired of hearing that this is a center-right country. It isn't anymore. We are now a truly centrist country, on average.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

People can bitch all they want about the broader implications and accuracy of the CNN poll about who won the debate, but the idea that Ryan is more qualified, not more preferred, but objectively more qualified, to be President than Joe Biden, is utterly absurd.

It didn't ask who was more qualified. Quite a number of people said they were both qualified.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

They should really have Biden prepare Obama for his next two debates.

Maybe Obama can call in sick and Biden will take over?

[J. J.]

I think Biden definitely came off too aggressive, interrupted too much, and smiled too much. It's good that he was showing passion and being assertive, particularly as more questions were being directed at Ryan, but it's always a fine balance to strike with being assertive without being overbearing.

That's probably what's showing up in the CNN polls showing it a tie, because Biden had a better debate on substance.

I generally agree, but Biden lost it on foreign policy.  He was a lot better on the economy than I thought he'd be.  Had he tuned down the laughing, et c., I'd give it to him.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is not what the undecided voters wanted.  He obviously drank Obama's Red Bull.  

NBC poll has given it to Ryan.

[Eraserhead]

Link for the CBS Poll

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57531059/poll-biden-takes-debate-over-ryan-uncommitted-voters-say/

[Warren 4 Secretary of Everything]

I think Biden definitely came off too aggressive, interrupted too much, and smiled too much. It's good that he was showing passion and being assertive, particularly as more questions were being directed at Ryan, but it's always a fine balance to strike with being assertive without being overbearing.

That's probably what's showing up in the CNN polls showing it a tie, because Biden had a better debate on substance.

I generally agree, but Biden lost it on foreign policy.  He was a lot better on the economy than I thought he'd be.  Had he tuned down the laughing, et c., I'd give it to him.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is not what the undecided voters wanted.  He obviously drank Obama's Red Bull.  

NBC poll has given it to Ryan.

Do you mean the CNBC Online non-scientific Poll?

[Eraserhead]

What are the numbers for the NBC Poll, JJ?

And is this an actual scientific poll?

[Jacob]

I think Biden definitely came off too aggressive, interrupted too much, and smiled too much. It's good that he was showing passion and being assertive, particularly as more questions were being directed at Ryan, but it's always a fine balance to strike with being assertive without being overbearing.

That's probably what's showing up in the CNN polls showing it a tie, because Biden had a better debate on substance.

I generally agree, but Biden lost it on foreign policy.  He was a lot better on the economy than I thought he'd be.  Had he tuned down the laughing, et c., I'd give it to him.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

It is not what the undecided voters wanted.  He obviously drank Obama's Red Bull.  

NBC poll has given it to Ryan.

Link the NBC poll please. And people need to stop citing the CNBC poll on here. CNBC watchers are 1.5 to 1 Republican:Democrat. PS : polls that invite everyone to participate as about as unscientific as you can get.

[Lief 🗽]

"Sports bar Biden vs. seminar Ryan" (CNN)
"Biden vs. Ryan: No Shy People Onstage" (NYT)
"Biden goes after Ryan in lone VP debate" (Politico)

"BIDEN'D" (Huffington Post)
"Sharp words as Ryan, Biden face off" (Washington Post)

[Jacob]

What are the numbers for the NBC Poll, JJ?

And is this an actual scientific poll?

Hey man. We don't need to see the poll. Just trust that it will be worked out later.

[izixs]

What are the numbers for the NBC Poll, JJ?

And is this an actual scientific poll?

Hey man. We don't need to see the poll. Just trust that it will be worked out later.

Ah yes, just like the Romney tax plan. And health car plan. And... well you get the point.

[Jacob]

What are the numbers for the NBC Poll, JJ?

And is this an actual scientific poll?

Hey man. We don't need to see the poll. Just trust that it will be worked out later.

Ah yes, just like the Romney tax plan. And health car plan. And... well you get the point.

Why do you hate freedom? Why do you not sing national hymns with regularity? Don't you want to have freedom? We're going the way of Cuba. Wake up, before the Black Panthers are awarded your house by Comrade Obama.

[Oswald Acted Alone, You Kook]

Did they mention Big Bird again?

[greenforest32]

Thought this was interesting-

You must be logged in to read this quote.

He really hasn't done himself any favors with that. Shouldn't have tried to lurch right before the rest of the party.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Biden doesn't know how to respect Ryan.  The child is acting like the adult and the adult is acting like the child.

If this is what you notice, then you don't deserve to vote.  Biden is scolding the child for lying out his ass this entire debate.

Best republican ever.

He's not actually a Republican.

[Eraserhead]

AP Poll of registered voters shows Biden to be the winner:

Biden 42%
Ryan 35%

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/13/us-usa-campaign-debate-poll-idUSBRE89B1AK20121013

[J. J.]

What are the numbers for the NBC Poll, JJ?

And is this an actual scientific poll?

I didn't get it, only hearing a report giving it to Ryan.

[J. J.]

They Libya comments are beginning to haunt Biden, and Obama.