Who won the debate?
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  Who won the debate?
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Poll
Question: Who won?
#1
Barack Obama
 
#2
Mitt Romney
 
#3
Draw
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 171

Author Topic: Who won the debate?  (Read 9404 times)
AmericanNation
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« Reply #75 on: October 16, 2012, 11:20:44 PM »

Candy Crowley basically called Romney out as a liar in front of 60-65 million people on the Libya comments...it's laughable that anyone can call that a win for Romney...there is no way the Republicans can spin that

Apparently Crowley is admitting she was wrong because well she obviously was. 

Romney tried to imply Obama didn't call the attack an act of terrorism. Obama did in fact do sototally false and made up; the administration didn't, however, call it an attack from a terrorist organization until it knew for sure that it was. Romney was arguing stupid semantics you're trying to but failing, he wasn't "right" about anything. everything he said was trueWhat he attacked Obama for in that moment was wrong. Full stop.nothing was wrong and you can't find anything
Obama didn't call it an act of terrorism.


Crowley is walking back hard... oops!!  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=athcyCTnTTs
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #76 on: October 16, 2012, 11:27:17 PM »

Posting in the 2012 board is truly a through the looking glass experience. Good lord.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #77 on: October 16, 2012, 11:29:48 PM »

What Marokai said.

Candy Crowley basically called Romney out as a liar in front of 60-65 million people on the Libya comments...it's laughable that anyone can call that a win for Romney...there is no way the Republicans can spin that

Apparently Crowley is admitting she was wrong because well she obviously was. 

Romney tried to imply Obama didn't call the attack an act of terrorism. Obama did in fact do sototally false and made up; the administration didn't, however, call it an attack from a terrorist organization until it knew for sure that it was. Romney was arguing stupid semantics you're trying to but failing, he wasn't "right" about anything. everything he said was trueWhat he attacked Obama for in that moment was wrong. Full stop.nothing was wrong and you can't find anything
Obama didn't call it an act of terrorism.


Crowley is walking back hard... oops!! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=athcyCTnTTs


Please explain to me on what planet an "act of terror" is something other than an act of terrorism. Smiley
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #78 on: October 16, 2012, 11:33:16 PM »

There is a difference... there is a difference between calling a terroising act, a general act of terror - vs, this was perpetrated by an organised terrorist cell...

But you want to think, what you want to think. 
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opebo
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« Reply #79 on: October 16, 2012, 11:33:54 PM »

It won't stop Obama's slide.  If he had actually outlined policy, I think he would have won.

Didn't the slide already stop?
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AmericanNation
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« Reply #80 on: October 16, 2012, 11:42:24 PM »

It won't stop Obama's slide.  If he had actually outlined policy, I think he would have won.

Didn't the slide already stop?
Not really, the polling showing Romney up 49-45 and 50-46 mostly came out the last two days. 
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2012, 12:22:45 AM »

There was no "domination," as some are implying. The candidates, for the most part, equally drove the discussion. If you want domination, look to the October 3rd debate.

That being said, this was still a clear Obama win, which, I'll admit, I didn't think we'd see. I also think this debate will seal Obama's re-election, though I'm not going to give up completely and pull a Lief.
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2012, 03:09:07 AM »

SUSA did a debate poll for California:

Obama 56%
Romney 32%

https://twitter.com/SovernNation/status/258409438212415488

Also Nate Silver sites "a Battleground Poll of likely voters in swing states who watched the debate" that shows Obama winning 53-38. I can't find a link though.

Here's Silver's round up of the instant polls:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/instant-reaction-polls-show-narrow-obama-advantage-in-second-debate/
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ZuWo
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« Reply #83 on: October 17, 2012, 03:16:51 AM »

I only saw the exchange on Libya, and I thought that was brutal for Romney. Obama looked presidential and sincere in this moment, while Romney came across as clueless and undignified in his attempt to politicize this tragedy. As I said, this is the only part of the debate I have seen so far, but judging by what I have seen I am surprised that the post-debate polls don't show a much clearer victory for the president. Frankly, you don't need to be an Obama hack to acknowledge that Romney made himself look like a fool during this particular exchange, and I agree with those pundits who say that this was Romney's "Gerald Ford moment".
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Earthling
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« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2012, 04:16:32 AM »

What Marokai said.

Candy Crowley basically called Romney out as a liar in front of 60-65 million people on the Libya comments...it's laughable that anyone can call that a win for Romney...there is no way the Republicans can spin that

Apparently Crowley is admitting she was wrong because well she obviously was. 

Romney tried to imply Obama didn't call the attack an act of terrorism. Obama did in fact do sototally false and made up; the administration didn't, however, call it an attack from a terrorist organization until it knew for sure that it was. Romney was arguing stupid semantics you're trying to but failing, he wasn't "right" about anything. everything he said was trueWhat he attacked Obama for in that moment was wrong. Full stop.nothing was wrong and you can't find anything
Obama didn't call it an act of terrorism.


Crowley is walking back hard... oops!! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=athcyCTnTTs


Please explain to me on what planet an "act of terror" is something other than an act of terrorism. Smiley

Indeed. I have just seen the statement Obama made in the Rose Garden after the attack and he called it an act of terror. So Crowley was right and Romney was wrong. That Crowley is apparently crawling back doesn't change that fact.

Romney lied. But then, what else is new.
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Earthling
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« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2012, 04:18:46 AM »

There was no "domination," as some are implying. The candidates, for the most part, equally drove the discussion. If you want domination, look to the October 3rd debate.

That being said, this was still a clear Obama win, which, I'll admit, I didn't think we'd see. I also think this debate will seal Obama's re-election, though I'm not going to give up completely and pull a Lief.

There is still a third debate. Problem for Romney is that it's about foreign policy.
If Obama does just as well in 5 days as he did last night, he will win reelection.
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Spanish Moss
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« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2012, 05:06:32 AM »

I'm not voting for either and don't feel like I have some kind of investment in either.  And just like Romney's clear victory in the first debate, it's absolutely clear Obama won this debate and anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly taking their opinion from personal bias upon which they would have said Romney won short of some absolutely abominable gaffe.

I disagree with Obama STRONGLY on "natural gas" (the natural gas industry is funding a huge campaign that the majority of those who know the science and engineering of it disagree with, safe hydrofracking is like saying smoking isn't addictive - and the PR company that used to say that is the same exact one the natural gas companies are using) and "clean coal" (no consensus on it's validity as being "cleaner" at all), amongst other things - it wasn't his opinion, I judged it on how it was debated, and who could up the other.  Obama very clearly won this, I don't even find it reasonably debatable.

But I don't think it matters.  Sure national polling is somewhat close, but the electoral map the way it is and the way states are polling, Romney has a very, very steep hill to climb.
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Middle-aged Europe
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« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2012, 05:46:03 AM »

Obama should have been this way two weeks ago. But like I said back then he probably needed a major ass-kicking first.
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Spanish Moss
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« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2012, 05:50:40 AM »

Obama should have been this way two weeks ago. But like I said back then he probably needed a major ass-kicking first.

I actually think in the long term, his failure in the first debate helped him.  1 bad debate and two stellar ones is better than 3 pretty good ones.  It lit a fire under him and now he's on his toes.  His bad performance, I believe, put him in a position where he pulled out stronger in the second debate, and will continue in the third.  Like you said, he needed that kick, and I think his poor first debate performance ultimately helps him.
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Vosem
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« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2012, 05:54:15 AM »

I'm going to go ahead and say I'm not entirely sure I see how the Libya moment was such an overwhelming Obama victory; here's the transcript:

OBAMA: Secretary Clinton has done an extraordinary job. But she works for me. I’m the president and I’m always responsible, and that’s why nobody’s more interested in finding out exactly what happened than I do.
The day after the attack, governor, I stood in the Rose Garden and I told the American people in the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened. That this was an act of terror and I also said that we’re going to hunt down those who committed this crime.
And then a few days later, I was there greeting the caskets coming into Andrews Air Force Base and grieving with the families.
And the suggestion that anybody in my team, whether the Secretary of State, our U.N. Ambassador, anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we’ve lost four of our own, governor, is offensive. That’s not what we do. That’s not what I do as president, that’s not what I do as Commander in Chief.
CROWLEY: Governor, if you want to…
ROMNEY: Yes, I — I…
CROWLEY: … quickly to this please.
ROMNEY: I — I think interesting the president just said something which — which is that on the day after the attack he went into the Rose Garden and said that this was an act of terror.
OBAMA: That’s what I said.
ROMNEY: You said in the Rose Garden the day after the attack, it was an act of terror.
It was not a spontaneous demonstration, is that what you’re saying?
OBAMA: Please proceed governor.
ROMNEY: I want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror.
OBAMA: Get the transcript.
CROWLEY: It — it — it — he did in fact, sir. So let me — let me call it an act of terror…
OBAMA: Can you say that a little louder, Candy?
CROWLEY: He — he did call it an act of terror. (applause) It did as well take — it did as well take two weeks or so for the whole idea there being a riot out there about this tape to come out. You are correct about that. (applause)
ROMNEY: This — the administration — the administration indicated this was a reaction to a video and was a spontaneous reaction.
CROWLEY: It did.
ROMNEY: It took them a long time to say this was a terrorist act by a terrorist group. And to suggest — am I incorrect in that regard, on Sunday, the — your secretary –
OBAMA: Candy?
ROMNEY: Excuse me. The ambassador of the United Nations went on the Sunday television shows and spoke about how –
OBAMA: Candy, I’m –
ROMNEY: — this was a spontaneous –
CROWLEY: Mr. President, let me –
OBAMA: I’m happy to have a longer conversation –
CROWLEY: I know you –
OBAMA: — about foreign policy.
CROWLEY: Absolutely. But I want to — I want to move you on and also –
OBAMA: OK. I’m happy to do that, too.
CROWLEY: — the transcripts and –
OBAMA: I just want to make sure that –
CROWLEY: — figure out what we –
OBAMA: — all of these wonderful folks are going to have a chance to get some of their questions answered.


So Crowley merely said that he used that phrase, but backed Romney saying it had taken 2 weeks for the idea of it being a terrorist act to come out. Unless the clip you saw ended where Crowley said "He did call it an act of terror," I don't see how that particular moment is going to help Obama in any particular way. Both the statement that Obama had used the phrase and the statement that it had taken 2 weeks to paint a fuller picture received applause from the audience. The moment did not come across to me as a 'Gerald Ford moment', or even a moment in which Romney looked worse than Obama; both candidates came off as telling only the part of the truth which helped them. Two gaffes canceling each other out, if you will.

Nevertheless, the debate was an Obama victory, if only because Obama actually engaged Romney and that's bound to energize parts of the left (polling seems to be indicating it was a more decisive victory than Biden's, which resulted in about a 1-point bounce which was then reversing before this debate, but obviously nothing close to Romney's first-debate victory). But I quibble on the idea that Obama won the Libya confrontation; that moment specifically I think was a draw.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2012, 06:21:26 AM »

Did you actually watch? It was as much about the way it was said, and Romney's reaction that gave it the effect.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2012, 06:51:11 AM »

Uh, I'm not really sure you get to absorb the debate in an entirely different format than viewed by tens of millions and get to say that you don't think it was an effective moment for Obama. What you think of that moment substantively is irrelevant, it was a smashing Obama high point in the debate broadcast, and the biggest moment of the debate. End of.
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BlueSwan
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« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2012, 07:27:36 AM »

Yes, I'm relieved, but I'm afraid it's not gonna matter all that much, except that another Romney victory would of course have been bad. This is a 50/50 race now as it has been since the first debate. The damage was done in the first debate. I still can't believe what the hell Obama was doing there.
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opebo
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« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2012, 07:42:59 AM »

Yes, I'm relieved, but I'm afraid it's not gonna matter all that much, except that another Romney victory would of course have been bad. This is a 50/50 race now as it has been since the first debate. The damage was done in the first debate. I still can't believe what the hell Obama was doing there.

If the underlined is the case, does that mean you accept the idea that the Big Bump was about something a lot more fundamental than 'debate performance'?  Perhaps race?
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AmericanNation
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« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2012, 07:50:55 AM »

CNN and CBS polling show Obama "won" the debate (largely because he beat expectations), but Romney won on every major issue.  I'll buy that.  As things go forward you can use substance wins much more than "hey, I beat expectations!"
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Knives
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« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2012, 07:51:33 AM »

When during the debate did it happen?

Don't want to watch all of it.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2012, 07:57:06 AM »

I'm not voting for either and don't feel like I have some kind of investment in either.  And just like Romney's clear victory in the first debate, it's absolutely clear Obama won this debate and anyone who thinks otherwise is clearly taking their opinion from personal bias upon which they would have said Romney won short of some absolutely abominable gaffe.

I disagree with Obama STRONGLY on "natural gas" (the natural gas industry is funding a huge campaign that the majority of those who know the science and engineering of it disagree with, safe hydrofracking is like saying smoking isn't addictive - and the PR company that used to say that is the same exact one the natural gas companies are using) and "clean coal" (no consensus on it's validity as being "cleaner" at all), amongst other things - it wasn't his opinion, I judged it on how it was debated, and who could up the other.  Obama very clearly won this, I don't even find it reasonably debatable.

But I don't think it matters.  Sure national polling is somewhat close, but the electoral map the way it is and the way states are polling, Romney has a very, very steep hill to climb.

I was also disappointed that Obama didn't even say "climate change" during the energy discussion.  Particularly because Romney has flip flopped on this and outright denial of it makes him look unreasonable.  Carbon emissions absolutely need to be part of every energy debate.  He should have asked Romney what he would do for bankrupted farmers and cities hit by hurricanes, etc.
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Knives
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« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2012, 08:08:12 AM »

Did anyone notice how Obama's pants were short on him?
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2012, 08:59:22 AM »

Obama, convincingly. Romney did about the same as last time, but it wasn't enough to win at all.

That Libya exchange is going to go up there with Ford in 1976 and Dukakis in 1988 - it's a defining moment of the election.
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Silent Hunter
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« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2012, 08:59:54 AM »

Did anyone notice how Obama's pants were short on him?

No, I didn't.

Speaking of clothing, what is that weird thing on Romney's flag badge?
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