Who won the debate?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Clearly a draw by any objective standard.

[ChrisFromNJ]

Clearly a draw by any objective standard.

It is clear to me that many right wingers live in their own "truth" bubble.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Considering the debate on its own, I'd call in a marginal win for Obama. But in terms of the larger campaign, I think it will give Obama a boost - he came across well, far better than he did in Denver. He got what he needd from the debate.

Romney, on the other hand, did himself no favors. It would be tough to equal his performance in the first debate, and he did doh reasonably well. But I suspect two things are going to haunt him for the rest of this week; "folders full of women" and Benghazi. And that's unhelpful.

By itself, "folders full of women" is an awkward phrase, but not terrible. But it was embedded in the middle of a bunch of comments on women in the workplace that felt like Romney was channeling my 90-year old grandfather. Not horrible, but a whole attitude that feels horribly outdated. Maybe that's not what Romney actually thinks or believe on the subject, but its how he came across. And "women in binders" serves to capture that in a very unflattering way, one that's already gone viral.

Second, the Libyan consulate attack. There are several problems with it, the biggest of which is that even if Romney wins, he loses. Was it a planned attack by a terrorist group? Looks like it probably was. Did the president say precisely that? No, he didn't. So what? I get that the Republicans think that they can somehow hang this around Obama's neck, but they're wrong.

There's no good way to politicize this, at least not the way the Romney has been trying. The harder he pushes the more it seems like he's trying to use a dead ambassador and dead Americans for political gain. Compared to that, I don't think the voting public cares when the administration labeled it an attack by a known terroist group. A technical vicory on this does Romney no good. He needs to drop it before he ends up spending the last debate arguing about the difference between an "act of terror" and a "terrorist act".

[Franzl]

Clearly a draw by any objective standard.

"Objective" doesn't mean what you apparently think it does.

[AmericanNation]

Obama, convincingly. Romney did about the same as last time, but it wasn't enough to win at all.

That Libya exchange is going to go up there with Ford in 1976 and Dukakis in 1988 - it's a defining moment of the election.

How can Obama win while, as you say, making a historic "election defining" gaff ? ? ?

[angus]

Thus far, it's a draw and completely forgettable in every way.

agreed. 

I just watched it.  Life got in the way last night so I didn't see it, but you can watch it on youtube today.  Romney missed a couple of great opportunities, I thought, and so did Obama.  Both were rude and thick-headed.  It was full of ambiguous promises, crosstalk, obfuscation, and obstinacy.  Also, nobody's math adds up.  Lousy debate.  What MacBeth said about Life, we can say about this debate:

...a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

At least the moderator was sexy.

[AmericanNation]

At least the moderator was sexy.

Careful, some people are into that sort of thing.   

[Silent Hunter]

Obama, convincingly. Romney did about the same as last time, but it wasn't enough to win at all.

That Libya exchange is going to go up there with Ford in 1976 and Dukakis in 1988 - it's a defining moment of the election.

How can Obama win while, as you say, making a historic "election defining" gaff ? ? ?

I didn't say Obama made a gaffe at all - it was Romney who did. What I was saying is that when we're in the retirement home, talking about 2012, this is what we'll remember.

That and "binders full of women".

[angus]

At least the moderator was sexy.

Careful, some people are into that sort of thing.  

lalaeee.  I actually stole the line from Clarence.  (I never know when he's joking.)

Most of the other material came from either memphis or Shakespeare.  What a plagiarist I am!

But seriously, it was a lousy debate.  A draw, and not in a good way.

[RJ]

I thought Obama's performance was an A+. That's the best debate performance I've ever seen out of him or almost any candidate for that matter. Romney was good but not A+ material.

I will concede the moderator seemed to pander just a little to Obama. There were, however, oppurtunities that Romney didn't capitalize on, such as when the black gentleman who was disappointed with Obama asked why he should vote for Romney. Also, it would have been a good strategy for Mitt to try to lighten the mood from time to time. It isn't generally a good idea for candidates to engage each other during a town hall debate, and Romney lost out on that repetitively asking about the oil leases exchange and the Libya bashing. Both candidates went over their alotted time repeatedly, but Romney argued with the moderator a little more often, particularly in the early going when he wanted to repond to Obamas "1 point" strategy comment.

[opebo]

But seriously, it was a lousy debate.  A draw, and not in a good way.

Haha, the gratifying sour grapes of the disappointed right-winger.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Seriously, opebo? Do you really think the way this debate was executed "worked"?

[Holmes]

I think this will move women back towards Obama in a big way, at least since the narrative seems to be how Romney objectifies women and puts them in binders. Not totally true, but still funny.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I think this will move women back towards Obama in a big way, at least since the narrative seems to be how Romney objectifies women and puts them in binders. Not totally true, but still funny.

I don't think any woman wins with that exchange. It was too alpha males discussion how to "treat" women, objectifying and marginalizing them. Obama may gain support back, but from the looks of it, no one really won that argument, especially women.

[BlueSwan]

Only watching it now. About halfway through. I'll admit to being biased but I think Obama is winning quite clearly so far. Romney is not doing bad as such, but Obama simply has better points and unlike last time he seemed properly fired up. I thought he won the debate on taxes comprehensively.

Bear in mind that I thought Obama lost huge in the first debate, so I'm really not much of a hack.

[Eraserhead]

I'm not sure why so many of you thought the debate was boring. George Will called it the best presidential debate he'd ever seen. I'm not sure if I'd go that far but it was definitely one of the better ones.

Which ones did you guys find so much more interesting? Or are you just a bunch of map nerds?

[Ebowed]

I think this will move women back towards Obama in a big way, at least since the narrative seems to be how Romney objectifies women and puts them in binders. Not totally true, but still funny.

I don't think any woman wins with that exchange. It was too alpha males discussion how to "treat" women, objectifying and marginalizing them. Obama may gain support back, but from the looks of it, no one really won that argument, especially women.

Dude, Romney stood up there and said that he would make the economic conditions so enticing that companies would even hire women, right after explaining that he understood how important it was that they have the appropriate hours free to go home and cook dinner.

I was honestly surprised that he wasn't able to rehearse a less patronizing response on the issue of pay equity.

[Lief 🗽]

Reuters says Obama won 48-33

[opebo]

Seriously, opebo? Do you really think the way this debate was executed "worked"?

Oh I would never watch such a thing.

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

I think this will move women back towards Obama in a big way, at least since the narrative seems to be how Romney objectifies women and puts them in binders. Not totally true, but still funny.

I don't think any woman wins with that exchange. It was too alpha males discussion how to "treat" women, objectifying and marginalizing them. Obama may gain support back, but from the looks of it, no one really won that argument, especially women.

Dude, Romney stood up there and said that he would make the economic conditions so enticing that companies would even hire women, right after explaining that he understood how important it was that they have the appropriate hours free to go home and cook dinner.

I was honestly surprised that he wasn't able to rehearse a less patronizing response on the issue of pay equity.

Oh I know. I'm not saying he came off well. That and the Libya moments are what lost him the debate, but I don't think women as a whole won any side of that particular. Romney came off as a patronizing masochist and Obama, while he gave a better answer, pays women less than men in his White House, so neither is a "champion of women."

[Antonio the Sixth]

I think Obama won it pretty decisively. Romney was more or less at the same level as last time, but Obama was transformed, managing to appear much more decisive. When Romney was called out on his vagueness, he was left unable to provide a serious response (I love how he ended the exchange on taxes by "well.. trust me, I'm a businessman"). There were moments when Obama didn't really seize the opportunity as much as he could have, but overall he was at his best.

Of course, I didn't really perceive Romney's victory last time, so my opinion isn't worth much. And I highly doubt this will produce a bounce nearly as big as what Romney got after Denver. Regardless, it was a great debate to watch.

[Fmr President & Senator Polnut]

I think this will move women back towards Obama in a big way, at least since the narrative seems to be how Romney objectifies women and puts them in binders. Not totally true, but still funny.

I don't think any woman wins with that exchange. It was too alpha males discussion how to "treat" women, objectifying and marginalizing them. Obama may gain support back, but from the looks of it, no one really won that argument, especially women.

Dude, Romney stood up there and said that he would make the economic conditions so enticing that companies would even hire women, right after explaining that he understood how important it was that they have the appropriate hours free to go home and cook dinner.

I was honestly surprised that he wasn't able to rehearse a less patronizing response on the issue of pay equity.

Oh I know. I'm not saying he came off well. That and the Libya moments are what lost him the debate, but I don't think women as a whole won any side of that particular. Romney came off as a patronizing masochist and Obama, while he gave a better answer, pays women less than men in his White House, so neither is a "champion of women."

and the whole having signed Lilly Ledbetter Act... where as Romney didn't even refer to it and Obama ripped that Romney would say anything about it during the primaries... in fact actively avoided talking about it.

[Vosem]

Uh, I'm not really sure you get to absorb the debate in an entirely different format than viewed by tens of millions and get to say that you don't think it was an effective moment for Obama.

Except that's not what I did -- I watched the debate and a good 45 minutes of after-debate coverage on YouTube, then decided to go to bed and posted my reaction the following morning on Atlas; I simply got the transcript to point out that it didn't strike me as a significant moment (and that afterwards, they spent more time talking about the exchange earlier in the debate about licenses to use public lands than that exchange), while everyone on the forum was saying it was so good for Obama. On top of the fact that the moderator called both of them out, both candidates received applause, and during the key moment all three of them were speaking simultaneously. Obama won the debate, but I maintain the Libya exchange was a draw and fundamentally had little or nothing to do with his victory.

What you think of that moment substantively is irrelevant, it was a smashing Obama high point in the debate broadcast, and the biggest moment of the debate. End of.

Why? 'End of' isn't a reason.

[Spanish Moss]

I think this will move women back towards Obama in a big way, at least since the narrative seems to be how Romney objectifies women and puts them in binders. Not totally true, but still funny.

I don't think any woman wins with that exchange. It was too alpha males discussion how to "treat" women, objectifying and marginalizing them. Obama may gain support back, but from the looks of it, no one really won that argument, especially women.

Dude, Romney stood up there and said that he would make the economic conditions so enticing that companies would even hire women, right after explaining that he understood how important it was that they have the appropriate hours free to go home and cook dinner.

I was honestly surprised that he wasn't able to rehearse a less patronizing response on the issue of pay equity.

I did a double-take there.  I'm not surprised he believes that, but the fact that he'd say it during a debate millions of voters are watching is baffling to me.

[Oakvale]

I personally will defer to our resident Libya expert on that particular question. Vosem did, after all, humiliate a (liebiral) school teacher on this very issue.