Virginia republican party man arrested after destroying registration forms.

[User157088589849]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57535950/man-arrested-for-tossing-voter-registration-forms/

Excellant news.

Keep up the good work Virginia republicans. Make sure only people who agree with you vote.

Fight for the 1%.

[J. J.]

I'd doubt this is suppression, since they don't have party registration in VA.  I'd also question if he any obligation to turn them in. 

[User157088589849]

I'd doubt this is suppression, since they don't have party registration in VA.  I'd also question if he any obligation to turn them in.  

Wow you are totally shameless.

[BringinTheTruth]

I considered posting a thread about JFK's winning margin in Cook County, Illinois in 1960 and birthing the modern Democratic coalition.  I figured I'd just mention it here, instead, since we are talking about voter fraud.

[BringinTheTruth]

Shameless is espousing one rule as applied to others, while asking them to accept that the same rule doesn't apply to yourself.

Hmmm...

[Alcon]

I'd doubt this is suppression, since they don't have party registration in VA.

Of course it's suppression.  It doesn't matter whose forms he was throwing away.  Also, why would you conduct a voter registration drive only to throw the forms away?  Unless these forms were somehow moot or requested by the voter to be destroyed, this is suppression, period.  Also, any half-competent registrar would get a written record from the voter if they were destroying a completed form.  I do -- every single time -- because otherwise you can't disprove that you were violating state law without the voters' testimony.  What competent person would risk that, and why?

I'd also question if he any obligation to turn them in. 

Virginia, like every state in the union that I know of (besides North Dakota), legally mandates that completed voter registrations must be returned.  Not doing so is a crime.  How do you think someone could be charged with "four counts of destruction of voter registration forms" if there's no legal obligation?

[J. J.]

I'd doubt this is suppression, since they don't have party registration in VA.  I'd also question if he any obligation to turn them in.  

Wow you are totally shameless.

No, but unless the guy was a letter carrier or a a public official, he had no obligation to deliver them.  Simply put, it is not legal to draft people into the US Postal Service.

[Badger]

I considered posting a thread about JFK winning Cook County, Illinois in 1960 and birthing the modern Democratic coalition.  I figured I'd just mention it here, instead, since we are talking about voter fraud.

You really think the only reason JFK won COOK COUNTY is due to voter fraud?

I officially point and laugh at your hackery.

[J. J.]

I'd doubt this is suppression, since they don't have party registration in VA.

Of course it's suppression.  It doesn't matter whose forms he was throwing away.  Also, why would you conduct a voter registration drive only to throw the forms away?  Unless these forms were somehow moot or requested by the voter to be destroyed, this is suppression, period.  Also, any half-competent registrar would get a written record from the voter if they were destroying a completed form.  I do -- every single time -- because otherwise you can't disprove that you were violating state law without the voters' testimony.  What competent person would risk that, and why?

As to why, because they were duplicates, or at least he thought most of them were.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/worker-for-gop-hired-contractor-charged-with-dumping-va-voter-registration-forms/2012/10/19/86062d7a-19f1-11e2-ad4a-e5a958b60a1e_story.html

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Virginia, like every state in the union that I know of (besides North Dakota), legally mandates that completed voter registrations must be returned.  Not doing so is a crime.  How do you think someone could be charged with "four counts of destruction of voter registration forms" if there's no legal obligation?
[/quote]

Only if the person is a hired third party, which he was.  If someone hands you a voter registration form, and you are not an official (or a letter carrier), you have no obligation to do anything with it.

[BringinTheTruth]

I considered posting a thread about JFK winning Cook County, Illinois in 1960 and birthing the modern Democratic coalition.  I figured I'd just mention it here, instead, since we are talking about voter fraud.

You really think the only reason JFK won COOK COUNTY is due to voter fraud?

I officially point and laugh at your hackery.

Wow, are you an idiot???  You think the demographics of Cook County are identical to what they were in 1960???  Hahahahaha!!!!!  Let us give you a history lesson, since you don't obviously know your history, Sharpie.

Nixon carried 92 of Illinois' 101 counties.  Kennedy won by under 9,000 votes out of nearly 5 million cast. Kennedy's electoral victory arose out of Cook County.  There, Mayor Daley held back reporting of the votes until late.  Then, Kennedy won the county by 450,000 votes - or 10% of the entire population of the city.  This was an outlier among counties across the nation, and swung 27 electoral votes to Kennedy.  Kennedy ended up not needing the state, but similar allegations were lodged in Texas where Kennedy won by only about 46,000 votes.  So no, tool....I think Kennedy probably would have won Cook County anyway.  But you might recall that a county's margin is generally added to that of the other counties in the entire state - watch for this phenomenon...I'll bet they do that again this year, but can't be positive.  When a margin comes in that is a complete outlier, and huge, it can swing an election.  In this case, assorted publications suggest that yes, fraud in Cook County(You don't think there's fraud....in COOK COUNTY???  See what I did there, smart guy?) won the state for Kennedy.

Thanks for playing though.

[Joe Republic]

Unsurprisingly, this man appears to have ties to Strategic Allied Consulting, the disgraced firm that was until recently employing by the GOP to drive voter registration efforts, which was accused of systematically employing this tactic in various swing states since at least 2004.

Before anybody tries to play the whatabout game and bring up ACORN, the reason why this tactic is worse is quite clear.  What ACORN was doing was paying its agents by the number of completed registration forms returned.  Therefore, ACORN agents were encouraged to return as many forms as possible; throwing any away would mean they wouldn't get paid.  The problem, of course, was that eventually false registrations were being filled out, e.g. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, etc.  However, although Mickey and Donald were often added to the voter rolls, they obviously never showed up to actually cast a ballot, and therefore the risk of fraudulent votes was mitigated.

This tactic employed by these Republican operatives is worse because they are in most cases posing as non-partisan election officials, and giving prospective voters the belief that they will be registered.  By the time they realize that they haven't been registered at all, it'll most likely be too late.

[Joe Republic]

Also,

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yeah, good luck with that. 

[BringinTheTruth]

Zzzzzzz.

[Alcon]

As always, J. J., you are almost totally wrong, but have found one thing that you will inevitably latch onto, to pretend you're actually competent in what you're discussing.  Let's begin!

No, but unless the guy was a letter carrier or a a public official, he had no obligation to deliver them.  Simply put, it is not legal to draft people into the US Postal Service.

Wrong in every state I know of, wrong in Virginia.  To wit: "If any person (i) agrees to mail or deliver a signed voter registration application to the voter registrar or other appropriate person authorized to receive the application and (ii) intentionally interferes with the applicant's effort to register either by destroying the application or by failing to mail or deliver the application in a timely manner, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor."  If I function as a voter registrar in a way that suggests to voters that I will turn in their application for them, and don't, I am guilty of a crime -- in Washington, in Virginia.  I have been doing voter reg for a while now, bro, and everyone knows this.

As to why, because they were duplicates, or at least he thought most of them were.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/worker-for-gop-hired-contractor-charged-with-dumping-va-voter-registration-forms/2012/10/19/86062d7a-19f1-11e2-ad4a-e5a958b60a1e_story.html

There is no indication there that Mr. Small thought they were duplicates -- just that they were.  That article doesn't even say Mr. Small was claiming that.  Also, read it more carefully.  Three of the eight voters were already registered.  One wasn't, but was a felon (did Mr. Small run felony background checks?)  Four were new voters and not duplicates.  Mr. Small is responsible for nearly disenfranchising four people, and there is no reason to assume he knew the other four applications were moot.

The line I assume you'll draw on to defend Mr. Small's applications is this: "If any person intentionally solicits multiple registrations from any one person or intentionally falsifies a registration application, he shall be guilty of a Class 5 felony."  That line does not prohibit submitting applications for those already registered.  It prohibits soliciting someone to register multiple times -- something that submitting a voter registration when you're already registered won't do.  People do that all the time.

Only if the person is a hired third party, which he was.  If someone hands you a voter registration form, and you are not an official (or a letter carrier), you have no obligation to do anything with it.

Demonstrably false.  I doubt that's even true in Pennsylvania.

[BringinTheTruth]

Unsurprisingly, this man appears to have ties to Strategic Allied Consulting, the disgraced firm that was until recently employing by the GOP to drive voter registration efforts, which was accused of systematically employing this tactic in various swing states since at least 2004.

Before anybody tries to play the whatabout game and bring up ACORN, the reason why this tactic is worse is quite clear.  What ACORN was doing was paying its agents by the number of completed registration forms returned.  Therefore, ACORN agents were encouraged to return as many forms as possible; throwing any away would mean they wouldn't get paid.  The problem, of course, was that eventually false registrations were being filled out, e.g. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, etc.  However, although Mickey and Donald were often added to the voter rolls, they obviously never showed up to actually cast a ballot, and therefore the risk of fraudulent votes was mitigated.

This tactic employed by these Republican operatives is worse because they are in most cases posing as non-partisan election officials, and giving prospective voters the belief that they will be registered.  By the time they realize that they haven't been registered at all, it'll most likely be too late.

ACORN paid people to bus people from Illinois to Ohio to register and/or vote despite not being citizens.  You left that off.  This is a nothing issue.

[Badger]

I considered posting a thread about JFK winning Cook County, Illinois in 1960 and birthing the modern Democratic coalition.  I figured I'd just mention it here, instead, since we are talking about voter fraud.

You really think the only reason JFK won COOK COUNTY is due to voter fraud?

I officially point and laugh at your hackery.

Wow, are you an idiot???  You think the demographics of Cook County are identical to what they were in 1960???  Hahahahaha!!!!!  Let us give you a history lesson, since you don't obviously know your history, Sharpie.

Nixon carried 92 of Illinois' 101 counties.  Kennedy won by under 9,000 votes out of nearly 5 million cast. Kennedy's electoral victory arose out of Cook County.  There, Mayor Daley held back reporting of the votes until late.  Then, Kennedy won the county by 450,000 votes - or 10% of the entire population of the city.  This was an outlier among counties across the nation, and swung 27 electoral votes to Kennedy.  Kennedy ended up not needing the state, but similar allegations were lodged in Texas where Kennedy won by only about 46,000 votes.  So no, tool....I think Kennedy probably would have won Cook County anyway.  But you might recall that a county's margin is generally added to that of the other counties in the entire state - watch for this phenomenon...I'll bet they do that again this year, but can't be positive.  When a margin comes in that is a complete outlier, and huge, it can swing an election.  In this case, assorted publications suggest that yes, fraud in Cook County(You don't think there's fraud....in COOK COUNTY???  See what I did there, smart guy?) won the state for Kennedy.

Thanks for playing though.

Your asinine post made the case that Cook County was won by JFK due to voter fraud. Outside of the Nixon landslide in 72, when's the last time a Republican presidential candidate won Cook County? Before the New Deal? I believe YOU are the one grossly ignorant of Cook County voting history, "Sharpie".

In the chance that you merely ineptly tried making the point that Chicago voter fraud won JFK the White House rather than merely Cook County, simple review of the electoral map and an abacus will demonstrate Kennedy would have won even without Illinois.

Don't play games when you don't know the rules.

[Badger]

I considered posting a thread about JFK winning Cook County, Illinois in 1960 and birthing the modern Democratic coalition.  I figured I'd just mention it here, instead, since we are talking about voter fraud.

You really think the only reason JFK won COOK COUNTY is due to voter fraud?

I officially point and laugh at your hackery.

Wow, are you an idiot???  You think the demographics of Cook County are identical to what they were in 1960???  Hahahahaha!!!!!  Let us give you a history lesson, since you don't obviously know your history, Sharpie.

Nixon carried 92 of Illinois' 101 counties.  Kennedy won by under 9,000 votes out of nearly 5 million cast. Kennedy's electoral victory arose out of Cook County.  There, Mayor Daley held back reporting of the votes until late.  Then, Kennedy won the county by 450,000 votes - or 10% of the entire population of the city.  This was an outlier among counties across the nation, and swung 27 electoral votes to Kennedy.  Kennedy ended up not needing the state, but similar allegations were lodged in Texas where Kennedy won by only about 46,000 votes.  So no, tool....I think Kennedy probably would have won Cook County anyway.  But you might recall that a county's margin is generally added to that of the other counties in the entire state - watch for this phenomenon...I'll bet they do that again this year, but can't be positive.  When a margin comes in that is a complete outlier, and huge, it can swing an election.  In this case, assorted publications suggest that yes, fraud in Cook County(You don't think there's fraud....in COOK COUNTY???  See what I did there, smart guy?) won the state for Kennedy.

Thanks for playing though.

Your asinine post made the case that Cook County was won by JFK due to voter fraud. Outside of the Nixon landslide in 72, when's the last time a Republican presidential candidate won Cook County? Before the New Deal? I believe YOU are the one grossly ignorant of Cook County voting history, "Sharpie".

In the chance that you merely ineptly tried making the point that Chicago voter fraud won JFK the White House rather than merely Cook County, simple review of the electoral map and an abacus will demonstrate Kennedy would have won even without Illinois.

Don't play games when you don't know the rules.

BTW: Do you realize what a self-parody you achieve when you claim "Zzzzzzz" to this story--which in and of itself may be an acceptable reaction---but simultaneously grow visably angry when discussing possible vote fraud from an election over 50 years ago?

[BringinTheTruth]

I considered posting a thread about JFK winning Cook County, Illinois in 1960 and birthing the modern Democratic coalition.  I figured I'd just mention it here, instead, since we are talking about voter fraud.

You really think the only reason JFK won COOK COUNTY is due to voter fraud?

I officially point and laugh at your hackery.

Wow, are you an idiot???  You think the demographics of Cook County are identical to what they were in 1960???  Hahahahaha!!!!!  Let us give you a history lesson, since you don't obviously know your history, Sharpie.

Nixon carried 92 of Illinois' 101 counties.  Kennedy won by under 9,000 votes out of nearly 5 million cast. Kennedy's electoral victory arose out of Cook County.  There, Mayor Daley held back reporting of the votes until late.  Then, Kennedy won the county by 450,000 votes - or 10% of the entire population of the city.  This was an outlier among counties across the nation, and swung 27 electoral votes to Kennedy.  Kennedy ended up not needing the state, but similar allegations were lodged in Texas where Kennedy won by only about 46,000 votes.  So no, tool....I think Kennedy probably would have won Cook County anyway.  But you might recall that a county's margin is generally added to that of the other counties in the entire state - watch for this phenomenon...I'll bet they do that again this year, but can't be positive.  When a margin comes in that is a complete outlier, and huge, it can swing an election.  In this case, assorted publications suggest that yes, fraud in Cook County(You don't think there's fraud....in COOK COUNTY???  See what I did there, smart guy?) won the state for Kennedy.

Thanks for playing though.

Your asinine post made the case that Cook County was won by JFK due to voter fraud. Outside of the Nixon landslide in 72, when's the last time a Republican presidential candidate won Cook County? Before the New Deal? I believe YOU are the one grossly ignorant of Cook County voting history, "Sharpie".

In the chance that you merely ineptly tried making the point that Chicago voter fraud won JFK the White House rather than merely Cook County, simple review of the electoral map and an abacus will demonstrate Kennedy would have won even without Illinois.

Don't play games when you don't know the rules.

Perhaps you should READ the post of mine that you quoted, where I explained.  Raising Cook County as a source of voter fraud is not the same as saying Someone won Cook County because of voter fraud.  i also like how you overlook the concession I made to say that Illinois ended up not mattering and attack on that.  i suppose you find voter fraud unacceptable only if it is determinative?  that figures. 

Again, I have no doubt Kennedy won Cook County.  Never said or suggested he didn't.  The facts are there.  However, on the issue of voter fraud, I merely raised Cook County in 1960 as an instance of long suspected voter fraud, which ultimately gave rise to the modern Dem coalition.  You mention 72...you think Cook County flipped by 30 points in 12 years?  Probably not.  Again....Kennedy no doubt won Cook County.  Never in dispute.  But again, he trailed by 441,000 votes and suddenly Cook Count comes in with a margin of 450,000 swinging the state with a margin unsupported anywhere else in the state?  Please.

Here are some rules for the future:  1) understand what is being discussed before you yap, 2) don't try to re-frame an issue to suit your position - it just looks lame, 3) when in doubt, just be quiet.

[BringinTheTruth]

I say zzzzz because voter fraud largely accounts for something like a .01 % difference in any election.  American elections are generally reliable.  This is a nonissue.

[Spanish Moss]

I say zzzzz because voter fraud largely accounts for something like a .01 % difference in any election.  American elections are generally reliable.  This is a nonissue.

It just sucks for people who want to vote but can't.  I know if I showed up at my polling place and somehow had been de-registered (or, when I registered, I never was officially registered), I'd be pretty frustrated with the fact.

[they don't love you like i love you]

So J. J.'s argument ultimately appears to be "There is nothing wrong with this because if you give your voter registration form to a random person on the street they are not obligated to deliver it. Even though this incident did not involve that."

[Modernity has failed us]

I'm just gonna pop in here and say that BlondeArtist should remove the blue avatar immediately.

[Landslide Lyndon]

So J. J.'s argument ultimately appears to be "There is nothing wrong with this because if you give your voter registration form to a random person on the street they are not obligated to deliver it. Even though this incident did not involve that."

Were you really expecting a coherent and legitimate argument from JJ?
Be thankful he didn't blame the Obamaphone lady for this mess.

[BringinTheTruth]

I say zzzzz because voter fraud largely accounts for something like a .01 % difference in any election.  American elections are generally reliable.  This is a nonissue.

It just sucks for people who want to vote but can't.  I know if I showed up at my polling place and somehow had been de-registered (or, when I registered, I never was officially registered), I'd be pretty frustrated with the fact.

That's why I verify my registration each year before the election.  It's very simple.  And again, that effect is not happening in a sufficient rate to adjust the winner.  Chances are, you would be frustrated long enough to see your vote would have made zero difference in the outcome when the returns came in that night. 

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

looks like there's a more mundane explanation for this:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/10/19/colin-small-may-have-thrown-out-voter-forms-because-he-made-a-mistake