Election: "Gays win, unborn lost"

[Adam Griffin]

In my back[w/y]ard.

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Church sign stirs controversy in Trenton

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Given what happened with the referenda in various states, the first is true, but the second?  Were there some abortion-related referenda I wasn't aware of?  Or does the pastor have this fantasy that Republican politicians would actually do something on the issue beyond jaw-jaw?

[t_host1]

  aah.. the referenda of marriage being the ancestral beginning of life; its character or, Marriage 2.0 the self identifying ancestral end of life? Where’s the controversy?  Or, are we talking about government benefits, for what reason would both be eligible?  “Distasteful” for whom? Confusing, I know, where’s what's the beef?

[John Dibble]

Given what happened with the referenda in various states, the first is true, but the second?  Were there some abortion-related referenda I wasn't aware of?  Or does the pastor have this fantasy that Republican politicians would actually do something on the issue beyond jaw-jaw?

It's the latter - delusional thinking that a Republican president can or even would try to overturn Roe vs Wade and outlaw all abortion.

[© tweed]

unaffiliated with Calvary Chapel?

[MaxQue]

Hopefully, they'll get wind and some objects will crush into the sign.

I hope than they'll get the message from Him.

[Svensson]

To this church, I can only say: good. Gays are people, the unborn aren't.

[RI]

...that's pretty much what happened.

[Franzl]

...that's pretty much what happened.

Whether you believe that or not....don't you have any problem with churches getting involved in politics like this?

[Jordan]

I have no shame saying that reading that sign gives me a lot of joy and pleasure.

[DC Al Fine]

...that's pretty much what happened.

Whether you believe that or not....don't you have any problem with churches getting involved in politics like this?

"The church must not simply bandage the victims under the wheel, but jam the spoke in the wheel itself." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

I don't support churches getting involved in partisan politics, but I have no problem using whatever means are at their disposal to fight evils like abortion.

[Ogre Mage]

I can see why Atlanta gays joke about not driving outside of "the perimeter" -- the circle of freeways separating Atlanta from the rest of the state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/us/27atlanta.html

[Speed of Sound]

A boot up the ass of the church's disgusting interference in our governing. Go home.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Honestly, I kind of agree with DC Al Fine on this. Not substantively--although I'd prefer for gays and unborn to both win if at all possible, since I don't like living in a Fallen world where there have to be losers--but in that I think it's somewhat disingenuous to expect religious organizations not to articulate their religious beliefs as they relate to particular issues. I think this should definitely stop short of affiliation with whole candidates and parties but to pretend that religious beliefs are unrelated to political positions, or should be, is absurd.

[RI]

...that's pretty much what happened.

Whether you believe that or not....don't you have any problem with churches getting involved in politics like this?

Not any more than any other group, no. Is not a pluralistic political discourse made up of all manners of interest groups the liberal ideal?

[afleitch]

It's quite a cheap sign as it presents a supposed dichotomy that gives away the church's position i.e the 'bad' group won and the 'good' group lost. It pains me to realise that they probably wish to endow more rights upon the 'unborn' than they do on their gay neighbours (rights rescinded if the unborn grows up to be gay of course)

[DC Al Fine]

(rights rescinded if the unborn grows up to be gay of course)

Um, what sect advocates for the right for a homosexual's mother to kill her child?

[afleitch]

(rights rescinded if the unborn grows up to be gay of course)

Um, what sect advocates for the right for a homosexual's mother to kill her child?

I think you knew what I meant when I said what I did. Many religious people get very gung ho about the 'rights' of the unborn but when they are born and grow up are less supportive of their rights if they take a different path to what their parents expect.

And, I hate to be it, do a search and you do find some pastors advocating death for gay people. Like Phillip Kayser, pastor of Dominion Covenant Church in Omaha:

“Difficulty in implementing Biblical law does not make non-Biblical penology just,” he argued. “But as we have seen, while many homosexuals would be executed, the threat of capital punishment can be restorative. Biblical law would recognize as a matter of justice that even if this law could be enforced today, homosexuals could not be prosecuted for something that was done before.”

[memphis]

I saw a church sign yesterday that said "No matter who is President, Jesus is still King." So much conservative butthurt.

[DC Al Fine]

(rights rescinded if the unborn grows up to be gay of course)

Um, what sect advocates for the right for a homosexual's mother to kill her child?

I think you knew what I meant when I said what I did. Many religious people get very gung ho about the 'rights' of the unborn but when they are born and grow up are less supportive of their rights if they take a different path to what their parents expect.

And, I hate to be it, do a search and you do find some pastors advocating death for gay people. Like Phillip Kayser, pastor of Dominion Covenant Church in Omaha:

“Difficulty in implementing Biblical law does not make non-Biblical penology just,” he argued. “But as we have seen, while many homosexuals would be executed, the threat of capital punishment can be restorative. Biblical law would recognize as a matter of justice that even if this law could be enforced today, homosexuals could not be prosecuted for something that was done before.”

Fair enough on Dominion Covenant guy. I dispute his theological reasoning, but that doesn't really address your point.

I'd like to address the fundamental dispute here; what counts as "gay rights". I presume you are referring to gay marriage. I won't get into secular state marriage because I don't support it period. The state has shown a tendency to bastardize marriage that existed long before homosexual sought the right to marry. Many of the legitimat  purposes of state marriage could be served with generic contracts.

Taking the state out of the matter, marriage becomes a religious institution. This creates a problem because a church is basically a private club who can exclude who they please. For example: The Catholic Church would refuse me communion because I am Protestant. Is this infringing on my rights? Obviously not, and the same applies to churches which refuse to sanction homosexual marriages.

Assuming you're not disputing my point in the previous paragraph, we are more or less in agreement. The church spends far too much time on homosexuals without combating the evils more present in the flock like divorce, adultery, heterosexual fornication, greed/gluttony, lack of charity etc.

[RI]

Assuming you're not disputing my point in the previous paragraph, we are more or less in agreement. The church spends far too much time on homosexuals without combating the evils more present in the flock like divorce, adultery, heterosexual fornication, greed/gluttony, lack of charity etc.

Yeah, gay marriage is a really overblown distraction that detracts from far more pervasive issues.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I saw a church sign yesterday that said "No matter who is President, Jesus is still King." So much conservative butthurt.

Did it ever occur to you that the belief in the sovereignty of God as relevant to Christian political discussion is older than Tuesday?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Assuming you're not disputing my point in the previous paragraph, we are more or less in agreement. The church spends far too much time on homosexuals without combating the evils more present in the flock like divorce, adultery, heterosexual fornication, greed/gluttony, lack of charity etc.

Yeah, gay marriage is a really overblown distraction that detracts from far more pervasive issues.

+1, although again we might not agree on precisely what those issues are.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

To this church, I can only say: good. Gays are people, the unborn aren't.

Your belief... not a fact.

[MaxQue]

To this church, I can only say: good. Gays are people, the unborn aren't.

Your belief... not a fact.

Well, the reverse is also a belief, it's neither a fact.