Coal company lays off workers after Obama wins
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Indy Texas
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« on: November 10, 2012, 12:40:48 AM »

http://money.cnn.com/2012/11/09/news/companies/coal-layoffs-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

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I don't know what's worse - that the guy had the nerve to lay off these people in the form of a prayer or that the dumb rube couldn't even spell "principles" correctly.

Regulations or not, the US coal industry probably will be nonexistent by the mid-21st century because all of the coal that's economically viable to mine will have already been extracted.
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Gass3268
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2012, 12:54:45 AM »

Once coal is there is no more coal to min, what happens to West Virginia?
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politicallefty
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 01:02:29 AM »

That CEO really is a horrible human being.

Also, as has been mentioned before, the irony is that it's the lack of regulations on natural gas extraction that has been hurting the coal industry.
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Skill and Chance
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 01:34:00 AM »

Once coal is there is no more coal to min, what happens to West Virginia?

There's plenty of gas to frack.  Those groups will control the state government instead.

On a related note, I wonder if we will ever have a green energy political machine take over a state?   Imagine a "bizarro WV" where legions of wealthy engineers vote 3:1 for Democrats because their jobs depend on strict EPA regulations. 
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Speed of Sound
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 02:44:51 AM »

I don't know what companies think this is going to prove, but if they think it's going to send people to go vote for their precious millionaire buddies, it's only doing the opposite and destroying people in the process. Of course, these CEOs like the candidates that they support don't give a crap about these people or their lives but only view them as instruments through which to achieve more of their hollow wealth.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 02:49:15 AM »

According to the Wikipedia page for the CEO, he grew up in a mining family and his father was paralyzed in a mine accident when he was nine.

I've always found it ironic that the most hard-hearted CEOs tend to be the ones who come from poor backgrounds (Don Blankenship is another example). Contrast them with people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, who grew up in well-to-do families and have more sense of noblesse oblige.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 05:58:42 AM »

According to the Wikipedia page for the CEO, he grew up in a mining family and his father was paralyzed in a mine accident when he was nine.

I've always found it ironic that the most hard-hearted CEOs tend to be the ones who come from poor backgrounds (Don Blankenship is another example). Contrast them with people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, who grew up in well-to-do families and have more sense of noblesse oblige.

Ironic, but not surprising.  Those who truly rose from poverty are more likely to have a mindset of "I was successful so why should my money go to those @#$%* lazy *&^%$# who aren't."  Whereas those who are born to comfort are more likely to have know some opebo-types who plan on lazily spending their parent's money and thus be skeptical of the advantages of wealth.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2012, 07:03:39 AM »

According to the Wikipedia page for the CEO, he grew up in a mining family and his father was paralyzed in a mine accident when he was nine.

I've always found it ironic that the most hard-hearted CEOs tend to be the ones who come from poor backgrounds (Don Blankenship is another example). Contrast them with people like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, who grew up in well-to-do families and have more sense of noblesse oblige.

Ironic, but not surprising.  Those who truly rose from poverty are more likely to have a mindset of "I was successful so why should my money go to those @#$%* lazy *&^%$# who aren't."  Whereas those who are born to comfort are more likely to have know some opebo-types who plan on lazily spending their parent's money and thus be skeptical of the advantages of wealth.

Coal barons Murray and Blankenship are jungle-fighters more like Gilded-Age tycoons. Jungle fighters -- the analogy being to those who see themselves the enforcers of the Law of the Jungle and business and politics a jungle -- have a mindset that few of us now have. The closest analogues in mindset would be crime lords except that coal is a respected object of trade and heroin isn't. They have fought for everything that they get and thy fight unions, politicians, and the media at every turn. That unions, the media, and liberals in government are respected parts of the Establishment make them feel as isolated as the tiger that has no friends. They are consummately ruthless and reactionary.



 
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Scabr
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 08:17:18 AM »

Hey, this campaign was a campaign of revenge, right?
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DemPGH
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 09:07:46 AM »

That "prayer" about made me spit out my coffee. The "prayer" Murray acted out is vile and disgusting. He should read Luke 6:24: "But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation." Hmm. Funny these ruthless and religious CEOs and TV preacher blowhards conveniently forget little zingers like that.

Realistically, though, coal sooner or later becomes a thing of the past. There is only so much of it there and it is about the dirtiest / polluting form of energy out there.
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2012, 09:19:46 AM »

What the hell? You leftist *()*& are ing ecstatic about the coal industry dying, yet simultaneously demonize the evil CEO for his evil corporate layoffs? Are you *&(&( to ((*&*&& stupid to understand that the coal industry collapsing means it employees get fired?
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SUSAN CRUSHBONE
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2012, 09:27:10 AM »

What the hell? You leftist *()*& are ing ecstatic about the coal industry dying

[citation needed]
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DemPGH
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2012, 09:28:35 AM »

What the hell? You leftist *()*& are ing ecstatic about the coal industry dying, yet simultaneously demonize the evil CEO for his evil corporate layoffs? Are you *&(&( to ((*&*&& stupid to understand that the coal industry collapsing means it employees get fired?

No, it's that the first people to take a low blow are always the workers / poor. Always. The CEOs conduct themselves like monarchs of ages ago. And I really can't believe that as soon as an election goes down the world ends for these people and it's time lay people off. That's just being ruthless and cut-throat. This Murray is a total piece of trash and hopefully his employees will find employment from someone much more resembling a human being evolved beyond the 15th century.

I meant that coal overall needs to get realistic about its future. There's just no way around that.
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Ⓐnarchy in the ☭☭☭P!
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2012, 10:23:31 AM »

What the hell? You leftist *()*& are ing ecstatic about the coal industry dying, yet simultaneously demonize the evil CEO for his evil corporate layoffs? Are you *&(&( to ((*&*&& stupid to understand that the coal industry collapsing means it employees get fired?

No, it's that the first people to take a low blow are always the workers / poor. Always. The CEOs conduct themselves like monarchs of ages ago. And I really can't believe that as soon as an election goes down the world ends for these people and it's time lay people off. That's just being ruthless and cut-throat. This Murray is a total piece of trash and hopefully his employees will find employment from someone much more resembling a human being evolved beyond the 15th century.

I meant that coal overall needs to get realistic about its future. There's just no way around that.

So this "evil CEO" has received news that the fellow who is likely to regulate the hell out of him, impose huge additional operating expenses on him, and jack up his taxes (if he could run it past congress, that is) has just won the election. One particular feature of his business that will attract additional costs is full time workers due to how the PPCA works. The hell do you expect him to do?
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2012, 10:35:16 AM »

Disgusting, but then these people always are. Of course it's no worse than some of the other reasons given for this kind of thing. It's complete bollocks, by the way, to suggest that background has anything to do with anything: plenty of despicable employers were born with proverbial silver spoons in whatever orifice that cliché demands they be found.

Of course as a source of employment the coal industry has been in a bad way for decades. What's clearly required is massive government intervention and support in the areas hit by deindustrialisation, but that's not going to happen, alas.
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Zioneer
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2012, 10:36:35 AM »

One thing about Utah; he may have a point in firing people from here, since natural gas is becoming more popular here and coal is really dying out.
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2012, 10:45:21 AM »

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No, it was a campaign for Democrat revenge. Only Democrats are allowed to inflict financial damage on their political opponents, through regulation and tax increases.

The chickens are coming home to roost. Smiley
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anvi
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2012, 11:01:56 AM »

All indications point to the fact that the coal industry has been overtaken in the past five years by the increased availability of cheap natural gas, along with the dwindling amounts of good mineable coal in West Virginia.  Even if Romney had won and swore off all they pollution-reduction regulations Obama has been pursuing recently, the coal industry would be in increasingly dire straits in the coming years.  Energy market forces, and not regulations, are killing coal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/10/15/the-coal-industry-would-be-in-decline-even-without-obamas-policies/
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Badger
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2012, 11:10:19 AM »
« Edited: November 10, 2012, 11:20:22 AM by Badger »

Isn't this the same company whose CEO gave massive (even by coal industry standards) bankrolling of the Romney campaign, and then required their employees to be present for a Romney speech/photo-op without pay (and then explained it to the media that although the mineral appearance was required, it wasn't 'mandatory $hit you not)?

There's no way this was an economic decision rather than a political statement and/or an emotional overreaction than a hardnosed business decision. There is no way to tell if any form of cap and trade or other meaningful environmental legislation will pass (especially with a gop house and cloture-proof senate-proof minority). Even if it did there's no way to tell what forms the law would take, and the regulations even then would take years to implement.

In short, there's absolutely no change in the coal markets on 11/7/12 then there was on 11/6/12. Isn't it rather telling that no other coal companies are reporting layoffs as a result of Obama's re-election?

Businessmen are as prone to emotional overreaction as any other person, and in this case if I were a shareholder I'd be demanding answers from this CEO for his decision rather than blaming Obama.

I'll add the one caveat that the only way this was a legitimately dollars and cents based decision is if the layoffs were planned due to market fluctuations long before Election Day and the CEO decided to use this timing to put it on Obama.

Either way, Rockhound, MBD, and others of their talk radio audience ilk are getting trolled massively here.

EDIT: Oh great. Now even occasionally non-trollish posters who SHOULD know better like Ben Kenobi are drinking the Kool-Aid. Roll Eyes
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opebo
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2012, 11:22:09 AM »

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No, it was a campaign for Democrat revenge. Only Democrats are allowed to inflict financial damage on their political opponents, through regulation and tax increases.

The chickens are coming home to roost. Smiley

How's that?  These coal miners all voted for Romney.  Nobody's laying off Obama voters.
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Indy Texas
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2012, 04:56:45 PM »

What the hell? You leftist *()*& are ing ecstatic about the coal industry dying, yet simultaneously demonize the evil CEO for his evil corporate layoffs? Are you *&(&( to ((*&*&& stupid to understand that the coal industry collapsing means it employees get fired?

No, it's that the first people to take a low blow are always the workers / poor. Always. The CEOs conduct themselves like monarchs of ages ago. And I really can't believe that as soon as an election goes down the world ends for these people and it's time lay people off. That's just being ruthless and cut-throat. This Murray is a total piece of trash and hopefully his employees will find employment from someone much more resembling a human being evolved beyond the 15th century.

I meant that coal overall needs to get realistic about its future. There's just no way around that.

So this "evil CEO" has received news that the fellow who is likely to regulate the hell out of him, impose huge additional operating expenses on him, and jack up his taxes (if he could run it past congress, that is) has just won the election. One particular feature of his business that will attract additional costs is full time workers due to how the PPCA works. The hell do you expect him to do?

Obama already "regulated the hell out of him." His energy bill got signed into law more than three years ago. This election changes absolutely nothing for this guy. Please tell me how Obama is going to "jack up his taxes" when he actually campaigned on reducing the corporate tax rate.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2012, 05:26:27 PM »

What the hell? You leftist *()*& are ing ecstatic about the coal industry dying, yet simultaneously demonize the evil CEO for his evil corporate layoffs? Are you *&(&( to ((*&*&& stupid to understand that the coal industry collapsing means it employees get fired?

No, it's that the first people to take a low blow are always the workers / poor. Always. The CEOs conduct themselves like monarchs of ages ago. And I really can't believe that as soon as an election goes down the world ends for these people and it's time lay people off. That's just being ruthless and cut-throat. This Murray is a total piece of trash and hopefully his employees will find employment from someone much more resembling a human being evolved beyond the 15th century.

I meant that coal overall needs to get realistic about its future. There's just no way around that.

So this "evil CEO" has received news that the fellow who is likely to regulate the hell out of him, impose huge additional operating expenses on him, and jack up his taxes (if he could run it past congress, that is) has just won the election. One particular feature of his business that will attract additional costs is full time workers due to how the PPCA works. The hell do you expect him to do?

Huh what? Aside from a lot of that being made up, you're saying that based upon far right wing paranoia about economic doomsday that the dude is justified the day after an election in going around firing a percentage of his work force? Don't even wait, just start firing them right now? No. Have you ever heard of Fascism? Murray is making a political example out of some of his workers for his own gain. That's as thoroughly off-putting as it gets. He was going to do this all along, he was just waiting for an excuse to make someone other than him look like the bad guy. And no one's buying it. If this sort of thing keeps up, there will be the rise of a national worker's party, and if Murray thinks he has it bad the day after an election, wait till that happens.

Further, American taxes were the highest in modern history under FDR and Eisenhower, and we had nothing but economic boom. Clinton raised taxes a bit in the middle 1990s, and what did we have? Boom. Regs and higher taxes provide STABILITY. That's important. Now contrast that to what Bush did: cut, cut, cut. What happened? Collapse. Cutting taxes doesn't ensure anything other than the rich get to buy more mansions.
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Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2012, 05:44:38 PM »

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Sheer, unadulterated nonsense. I suppose in your world the 80s never happened?

Also, FDR jacked up the taxes in 1933. It wasn't until 22 years later that the stock market would finally recover, and it would still be behind when taking inflation into account over that period.

If it takes 22 years, chances are, it ain't the tax increase that caused prosperity.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2012, 05:54:26 PM »

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Sheer, unadulterated nonsense. I suppose in your world the 80s never happened?

Also, FDR jacked up the taxes in 1933. It wasn't until 22 years later that the stock market would finally recover, and it would still be behind when taking inflation into account over that period.

If it takes 22 years, chances are, it ain't the tax increase that caused prosperity.

Of course the 1980s happened. Teflon Ron chopped taxes lower than they had ever been, blew up the military budget, and the economy collapsed of course, and he raised them to fix it.

Tax increases do not cause decline as is commonly argued, that was my point. And the stock market is a little bit of a different story, especially then. 
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King
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2012, 06:21:43 PM »

It would be very Marxist of Romney to have propped up a dying industry.  Picking winners and losers and whatnot.
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