Nazi economic policy

[jokerman]

I completely agree Nazis weren't right wing economicaly.  But most facists are right winged economically.

Like who?

Franco, Musilini, Japanese totalitarians -all supported by the right-wing corporate and aristocratic interests.  You listen to any political scientist.  He'll tell that a main tenant of normal facism is that it is supported by the aristocracy and corporations and is right-wing economically.  Maybe not necesarily small government, but a government that let's corporations run rampant and is geared to helping out the top.

[Bono]

I completely agree Nazis weren't right wing economicaly.  But most facists are right winged economically.

Like who?

Franco, Musilini, Japanese totalitarians -all supported by the right-wing corporate and aristocratic interests.  You listen to any political scientist.  He'll tell that a main tenant of normal facism is that it is supported by the aristocracy and corporations and is right-wing economically.  Maybe not necesarily small government, but a government that let's corporations run rampant and is geared to helping out the top.

Corporatism, which was the political philosophy practiced by the first two(I don't know mmuch about Japan), was efectively the merger of corporations with the state, and was marked by monopolies, protectionism and redistribution of wealth. ie, this was much like the 19th century GOP, not at all right-wing.

[minionofmidas]

I completely agree Nazis weren't right wing economicaly.  But most facists are right winged economically.

Like who?

Franco, Musilini, Japanese totalitarians -all supported by the right-wing corporate and aristocratic interests.  You listen to any political scientist.  He'll tell that a main tenant of normal facism is that it is supported by the aristocracy and corporations and is right-wing economically.  Maybe not necesarily small government, but a government that let's corporations run rampant and is geared to helping out the top.

Corporatism, which was the political philosophy practiced by the first two(I don't know mmuch about Japan), was efectively the merger of corporations with the state, and was marked by monopolies, protectionism and redistribution of wealth. ie, this was much like the 19th century GOP, not at all right-wing.

You're both largely right, and yes, this applies to Nazi Germany as well.

[Bono]

I completely agree Nazis weren't right wing economicaly.  But most facists are right winged economically.

Like who?

Franco, Musilini, Japanese totalitarians -all supported by the right-wing corporate and aristocratic interests.  You listen to any political scientist.  He'll tell that a main tenant of normal facism is that it is supported by the aristocracy and corporations and is right-wing economically.  Maybe not necesarily small government, but a government that let's corporations run rampant and is geared to helping out the top.

Corporatism, which was the political philosophy practiced by the first two(I don't know mmuch about Japan), was efectively the merger of corporations with the state, and was marked by monopolies, protectionism and redistribution of wealth. ie, this was much like the 19th century GOP, not at all right-wing.

You're both largely right, and yes, this applies to Nazi Germany as well.

So if economic freedom is not right wing, according to you, what is it?
Left wing?

[minionofmidas]

"Justice and Liberty" is left wing. Plutocracy is right wing. Statism, at least as practiced in the Soviet Union et al, and what you Friedmanites call Economic Freedom may both be paths to plutocracy. [/gross simplification]

[Bono]

"Justice and Liberty" is left wing. Plutocracy is right wing. Statism, at least as practiced in the Soviet Union et al, and what you Friedmanites call Economic Freedom may both be paths to plutocracy. [/gross simplification]

I'd like to say first I'm not a Friedmanite, as I really dsilike Friedman for his support of international organizations and stand against the gold standard.
Secondly, I agree that state interventionism in the economy guided either by corporations or by other interests probablywould lead to plutocracy, and that is exactly what neo.conservatives defend. But the paleo-versions,is a different story, thoigh yes, that could be argued against some branches of the right famility tree.
Also, I wouldlike to point out that while Proudhon said"property is theft" when rfering to land stolen by the state and given to rich aristocrats and corportions, he also said "property is freedom" while refering to farmers who worked their land and lived of the fruits of their labor.

[minionofmidas]

"Justice and Liberty" is left wing. Plutocracy is right wing. Statism, at least as practiced in the Soviet Union et al, and what you Friedmanites call Economic Freedom may both be paths to plutocracy. [/gross simplification]

I'd like to say first I'm not a Friedmanite, as I really dsilike Friedman for his support of international organizations and stand against the gold standard.
Secondly, I agree that state interventionism in the economy guided either by corporations or by other interests probablywould lead to plutocracy, and that is exactly what neo.conservatives defend. But the paleo-versions,is a different story, thoigh yes, that could be argued against some branches of the right famility tree.
Also, I wouldlike to point out that while Proudhon said"property is theft" when rfering to land stolen by the state and given to rich aristocrats and corportions, he also said "property is freedom" while refering to farmers who worked their land and lived of the fruits of their labor.

Proudhon's right. "Friedmanites" was part of the gross simplification.

[John Dibble]

On Nazi policy, I agree that they didn't really focus on economics. Basically it was anything that was good for obedience to the leaders and for the war machine was encouraged, and anything that was the opposite was not. It was just using economy as a means of control.

"Justice and Liberty" is left wing.

That is a gross oversimplification, lol. Economic liberty is part of liberty, btw. And I know it's not true of all left-wingers, but I think the left is much softer in the justice area of things than the right - just a general rule. Of course, I don't think the right is "Justice and Liberty" either, then again I'm libertarian so I've pretty much picked up what I see as the "Justice and Liberty" positions from each side of the spectrum.

[jokerman]

I completely agree Nazis weren't right wing economicaly.  But most facists are right winged economically.

Like who?

Franco, Musilini, Japanese totalitarians -all supported by the right-wing corporate and aristocratic interests.  You listen to any political scientist.  He'll tell that a main tenant of normal facism is that it is supported by the aristocracy and corporations and is right-wing economically.  Maybe not necesarily small government, but a government that let's corporations run rampant and is geared to helping out the top.

Corporatism, which was the political philosophy practiced by the first two(I don't know mmuch about Japan), was efectively the merger of corporations with the state, and was marked by monopolies, protectionism and redistribution of wealth. ie, this was much like the 19th century GOP, not at all right-wing.

You're both largely right, and yes, this applies to Nazi Germany as well.

So if economic freedom is not right wing, according to you, what is it?
Left wing?

I consider ultra-right wing to be corporatism and plutocracy.  Ultra-left wing is communism.  As they say, Communism is control of means of production by the state (ie anarchic mobs running rampant over business, and Fascism is the control of the states by the means of production (ie aristocracy and coprorations controlling the lower class through a rigged government structure).  They are polar opposites and the extreme of both sides.

[Bono]

I completely agree Nazis weren't right wing economicaly.  But most facists are right winged economically.

Like who?

Franco, Musilini, Japanese totalitarians -all supported by the right-wing corporate and aristocratic interests.  You listen to any political scientist.  He'll tell that a main tenant of normal facism is that it is supported by the aristocracy and corporations and is right-wing economically.  Maybe not necesarily small government, but a government that let's corporations run rampant and is geared to helping out the top.

Corporatism, which was the political philosophy practiced by the first two(I don't know mmuch about Japan), was efectively the merger of corporations with the state, and was marked by monopolies, protectionism and redistribution of wealth. ie, this was much like the 19th century GOP, not at all right-wing.

You're both largely right, and yes, this applies to Nazi Germany as well.

So if economic freedom is not right wing, according to you, what is it?
Left wing?

I consider ultra-right wing to be corporatism and plutocracy.  Ultra-left wing is communism.  As they say, Communism is control of means of production by the state (ie anarchic mobs running rampant over business, and Fascism is the control of the states by the means of production (ie aristocracy and coprorations controlling the lower class through a rigged government structure).  They are polar opposites and the extreme of both sides.

I beg to differ.
Fascism is just communism-lite, because in communism there is no property, all is owned by the state, while in fascism,property exists nominally, but the effective control of it lies with the state.
Just because a powerful pressure group, in this case the corporations, manages to influencem,ost decisions of the controling power(which wasnot the case, as really the dictator controled the corporations, and not the reverse), the truth is there would actually not be economical freedom, but just a slightly less opressive system than communism.

[opebo]

In practice the Nazis were very pro-Capital - in other words they existed to end the threat to the owning class represented by communists, socialists, and trade unions.  Most of the upper classes in Britain and America wanted something similar here, but of course didn't quite get the full system.

[A18]

Worried about that inheritance tax, opebo?

[opebo]

Worried about that inheritance tax, opebo?

No.

[??????????]

I'm awfully worried about the expiration of the repeal of the inheritance tax in 2011.  It will go back to a ridiculous one milllion exemption - ouch! 

[opebo]

Yes, States, I changed my mind.  I realize you are incapable of this, but many humans can learn, grow, and improve. 

[A18]

I can't believe anyone takes you seriously.

[opebo]

I can't believe anyone takes you seriously.

Look who's talking.

[A18]

Until I become a Marxist troll, you have no point.

[opebo]

Until I become a Marxist troll, you have no point.

I'm a liberal, philip.

[A18]

I suppose that would justify the fact that you have no point.

[opebo]

I suppose that would justify the fact that you have no point.

What do you mean 'point'?  I suppose we've both made thousands of points on here...

[A18]

I was referring to this thread, but the difference would be that my points aren't the exact opposite of the ones I made when I first registered.

[opebo]

I was referring to this thread, but the difference would be that my points aren't the exact opposite of the ones I made when I first registered.

Yes, yes, I have changed my mind.  You have made that point about a million times!

[A18]

If you're not a troll, three words: borderline personality disorder

[opebo]

If you're not a troll, three words: borderline personality disorder

Hmm.. you think that re-evaluating ones opinions is a personality disorder?