Did Romney defeat himself? Did Obama win for himself? A combination of both?
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  Did Romney defeat himself? Did Obama win for himself? A combination of both?
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Question: Did Romney defeat himself? Did Obama win for himself? A combination of both?
#1
Romney defeated himself
 
#2
Obama won for himself
 
#3
A combination of both
 
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Total Voters: 73

Author Topic: Did Romney defeat himself? Did Obama win for himself? A combination of both?  (Read 2126 times)
Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« on: November 14, 2012, 08:18:44 PM »

It has been discussed over the past several months that the election was Romney's to lose. 

It was widely believed that, due mainly to the faltering economy, that the election was completely winnable for Romney.  As we all know, that's not what happened.

Please vote and discuss.
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 08:21:09 PM »

It's always both.  Obama ran an excellent campaign, but Romney made some stupid mistakes along the way.  He never effectively refuted Obama's image of Romney.  He bought into the Fox News reality, which took away some energy and desperation that all the other polls said he needed.  These mistakes hurt Romney, but Obama really ran a strong campaign.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 08:33:53 PM »

Romney ran one of the worst campaigns ever while Obama hit him hard. I was surprised the popular vote was as close as it was, even considering all the circumstances that effect President Obama.
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sg0508
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2012, 08:43:02 PM »

Both. The President ran a good campaign and the Republicans ran a poor one.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2012, 09:56:56 PM »

I actually think Mittens ran a decent campaign. The GOP brand is just toxic these days, and until changes are made, I don't think any Republican can win, even if Jeb or Rubio run in this current environment. That could change come 2016.
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King
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2012, 11:07:11 PM »

The truth is that minorities don't vote at midterms and that the Republican wave of 2010 would not have happened if everyone voted.  They only kept the House in 2012 because of gerrymandering.  The President had a silent if slight majority and it never really wavered over the course of his term.
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MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!
Kalwejt
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2012, 11:10:15 PM »

Of course the election was winneable for Romney and he did everything he could to lose it.

But that's not the whole story. Obama also would't win without running a smart and effective campaign, so option three.
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○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2012, 03:04:52 AM »

Romney's campaign was a disaster, but I wouldn't understate Obama's ground game, either.
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opebo
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2012, 04:27:03 AM »

Obama would have beaten any Republican.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2012, 04:34:33 AM »

Obama would have beaten any Republican.

A nominee that could properly use this tool would have defeated Obama(OH+WI). Obviously the Republicans didn't have such a contender available.
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2012, 09:29:34 AM »

Wow, I agree with Moderate Coward. That must be a first. Romney ran an absolute disaster of a campaign.
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Stranger in a strange land
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2012, 10:06:56 AM »
« Edited: November 15, 2012, 11:00:51 AM by Stranger in a strange land »

Romney's campaign was bad, but was it as bad as Dukakis '88 or Kerry '04? No. Tactical mistakes by Romney's big money backers were a big factor too, as was his unwillingness to distance himself from the more extreme elements of his base (Akin, Mourdock, Trump, etc.) Also, Obama on the whole ran a pretty good campaign.

Speaking of which, why do nominees from Massachusetts run such epically bad campaigns, and why do they keep getting nominated? Keep in mind that Paul Tsongas probably would have gotten the Dem nomination in 1992 if Clinton hadn't run, and Ted Kennedy very nearly primaried Jimmy Carter in 1980.
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opebo
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2012, 01:22:52 PM »

Obama would have beaten any Republican.

A nominee that could properly use this tool would have defeated Obama(OH+WI). Obviously the Republicans didn't have such a contender available.

Sorry, I have no idea what that means.  Anyway Obama 2012 minus OH and WI is still a solid win at 304 electoral votes:

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LastVoter
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2012, 01:30:35 PM »

Obama would have beaten any Republican.

A nominee that could properly use this tool would have defeated Obama(OH+WI). Obviously the Republicans didn't have such a contender available.

Sorry, I have no idea what that means.  Anyway Obama 2012 minus OH and WI is still a solid win at 304 electoral votes:




Racist path to 270.
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King
intermoderate
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2012, 01:36:48 PM »

For true conservatives, Colorado is gone for good like Nevada and New Mexico.  It's only getting more non-white.  2012 was the last chance for a conservative platform to win it.
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Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2012, 01:38:49 PM »

Quote
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Good thing we don't need you to win. Smiley
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2012, 02:07:22 PM »

I think Romney defeated himself, although he had some real help with that from his party. Yes, Obama ran a quite good campaign (barring his first debate) but he had to do that in order to have a shot at winning.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2012, 08:25:12 PM »

Obama would have beaten any Republican.

A nominee that could properly use this tool would have defeated Obama(OH+WI). Obviously the Republicans didn't have such a contender available.

Sorry, I have no idea what that means. 

It's a dog whistle.

Of course, any campaign that gets cats or dogs out to vote is committing vote fraud. That would be a new one. Maybe the Republicans could have won with such a strategy.
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LastVoter
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012, 08:32:29 PM »

Wow, I agree with Moderate Coward. That must be a first. Romney ran an absolute disaster of a campaign.
Well the goal here is to get red avatars to agree with me, but I guess finding out who the racists are on this forum is a bonus(I would have thought no self respecting blue avatar would agree with me).
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012, 08:42:44 PM »

The Lichtman test has been right

1.    Party mandate: After the midterm elections, the incumbent party holds more seats in the U.S. House of Representatives than it did after the previous midterm elections. Says Lichtman, “Even back in January 2010 when I first released my predictions, I was already counting on a significant loss.” Obama loses this key. BIG. Five to go, and Romney wins.


2.    Contest: There is no serious contest for the incumbent party nomination. Says Lichtman on Obama’s unchallenged status, “I never thought there would be any serious contest against Barack Obama in the Democratic primary.” Obama wins this key. 1-1 Obama.


3.    Incumbency: The incumbent party candidate is the sitting president. Easy win here for Obama. 2-1 Obama.

4.    Third Party: There is no significant third party challenge. Obama wins this point. 3-1 Obama.


5.   Short term economy: The economy is not in recession during the election campaign. Here Lichtman declares an “undecided.”
6.    Long-term economy: Real per capita economic growth during the term equals or exceeds mean growth during the previous two terms. Says Lichtman, “I discounted long term economy against Obama. Clearly we are in a recession.” Obama loses this key. [Read: Seven Ways Obama Can Gain Credibility on Jobs.]

Things may be better than four years earlier. but not good enough.  3-3 Obama. Getting dicey.
  
7.  Policy change: The incumbent administration effects major changes in national policy. “There have been major policy changes in this administration. We’ve seen the biggest stimulus in history and an complete overhaul of the healthcare system so I gave him policy change,” says the scholar. Another win for Obama. 4-3 Obama.

8.   Social unrest: There is no sustained social unrest during the term. Says Lichtman, “There wasn’t any social unrest when I made my predictions for 2012 and there still isn’t.” Obama wins a fifth key here. 5-3 Obama. He needs three more to clinch.
  
9.  Scandal: The incumbent administration is untainted by major scandal. “This administration has been squeaky clean. There’s nothing on scandal,” says Lichtman. Another Obama win.

Solyndra is nothing compared to Enron.  6-3 Obama.

10.    Foreign/military failure: The incumbent administration suffers no major failure in foreign or military affairs. Says Lichtman, “We haven’t seen any major failure that resembles something like the Bay of Pigs and don’t foresee anything.” Obama wins again.

The terrorist attack on a consulate in Benghazi is a consequence of the demise of Moammar Qaddafi whom nobody misses. 7-3 Obama.
 
11.    Foreign/military success: The incumbent administration achieves a major success in foreign or military affairs. “Since Osama bin Laden was found and killed, I think Obama has achieved military success.” Obama wins his eighth key. 8-3, Obama clinches.

12.    Incumbent charisma: The incumbent party candidate is charismatic or a national hero. Explains Lichtman, “I did not give President Obama the incumbent charisma key. I counted it against him. He’s really led from behind. He didn’t really take the lead in the healthcare debate, he didn’t use his speaking ability to move the American people during the recession. He’s lost his ability to connect since the 2008 election.” Obama loses this key. [See political cartoons about President Obama.]

He showed it when he needed it -- at election time. He wins here.

13.    Challenger charisma: The challenging party candidate is not charismatic or a national hero. Says Lichtman, “We haven’t seen any candidate in the GOP who meets this criteria and probably won’t.” Obama wins, bringing his total to nine keys, three more than needed to win reelection.

Romney certainly lacked charisma, and he was a draft-dodger during the Vietnam war.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/08/30/never-wrong-pundit-picks-obama-to-win-in-2012
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TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
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« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2012, 12:26:24 AM »

Romney's campaign wasn't perfect and he was hurt substantially be a few gaffes, the 47% line being the most harmful, but Romney also was put in a tough situation. The GOP base was/is out for blood and had to both harness their anger and not let it define him. In a sense he didn't really managed to do either completely as numerous conservatives didn't rally around Romney and the angst of the base hurt Romney's image. Either way it is an extremely tough position to be in and he was unable to thread the needle that had to be thread for an electoral success.
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