Reaganfan's Reaction

[MrMittens]

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.

That was an FF electorate

[memphis]

Naso, some things aren't about television. In fact, most things aren't about television. It's a great big world out there. You may want to check it out. And the 80s were as complex as any time. You may want to read up on this guy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_O%27Neill

[Simfan34]

Sometimes, Naso, I wish I could share your hatred of liberal America on a regular basis, and not just when tired, drunk, or in a misanthropic bout.

[Paul Kemp]

I didn't read but I think I got the drift.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

I didn't read but I think I got the drift.

I read it. 

[Niemeyerite]

My official prediction was 74.1% accurate,
I am NOT a hack. I am a straight shooter. I tell it the way it is. If you can understand that about me, then you can begin to respect my predictions and analysis of elections and current event topics.

LoL. Straight shooter? Really? Virginia, Florida and Colorado were Obama states once again.

Nobody's perfect but I was making an honest prediction. I thought those three and New Hampshire and Iowa would slip Romney's way. I was wrong, but I still predicted an Obama victory, and I was right.

Ben Kenobi predicted an Obama win, with Alabama and Mississippi voting for him, among others. So, he still predicted an Obama victory, too. Both of you were straight shooters, eh?

[Stranger in a strange land]

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.

Why thankfully?

Although I don't think diversity is a bad thing...that comment was entirely in a political strategy sense.

I also don't think that diversity is a bad thing. I just don't think that a country with many diverse groups is inherently better than a homogeneous country. And there are indeed lots of examples showing that the opposite might be true.

Whites in the U.S. are also far from homogenous, and the U.S. has never been a homogenous country, at least not in the sense I think you're talking about.

[rwoy]

Romney lost because Romney was a terrible candidate.

This was not a replay of the 1980 election, it was a replay of 1984 with the parties reversed.  The unemployment figures under the 1st terms of Obama and Reagan are shockingly similar.  In 1984 Mondale was a terrible candidate who lost saying he would raise taxes to pay down debt.  In 2012 Romney was a terrible candidate who lost saying he would cut government services & close tax loopholes to pay down the debt (but he refused to specify which ones).

Republicans are looking for someone to blame for this loss.  They need to look in the mirror.  Why did you have such a pathetic pool of primary candidates?  How did you allow your party to be taken over by extremists who make idiotic statements (how many Republicans talked about rape)?  What happened to your willingness to compromise (which is now a dirty word in GOP circles)?

The Republican party is destroying itself.  It is doing this because it is picking fights over ridiculous issues that it simply cannot win.  Immigration is a losing battle.  Abortion is a losing battle.

[DemPGH]

A couple reactions.

The only thing I miss from the 1980s when I was kid is the NFL of that era, the movies before special effects became the end-all-be-all, and oh yes, the original Nintendo. Hours and hours of mileage on that sucker. Bionic Commando, Mega Man, you name it. We had 'em all, or just about.

Now, while I don't miss Reagan or Bush, today's GOP is far to the right of even the 1980s GOP, and certainly to the right of the 1970s GOP by miles. If they became moderate and said sensible things, they would win elections. That women should be forced to have rape babies is a big loser. It just is, and it's nonsense to take a position like that. And for the love of God, if they could do more than parrot the "cut taxes" line they'd look reasonable and like they had something resembling a plan. Reagan cut taxes because taxes were actually high then, or at least I should say more progressive than now. Sooner or later you can't keep going like it's 1980. We've been slashing taxes for 30 years, and you'd think if it worked we'd have 0% unemployment, that's how deeply and often the taxes have been cut compared to back in 1980.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

88% just 30 years ago?  Ewwwww...  I really would've hated living in the 80s.  As if the environment wasn't conservative enough, politicians had to pander to THAT electorate?  I understand they constituted 83% of the overall pop., so it's not terribly unrepresentative... but I sleep quite better at night knowing they are not the only people our leaders have to worry about. 

I probably should cool it a bit when it comes to my fellow white folks, I've spent the better part of this election cycle insulting them, but even after two Obama victories, I just don't think a lot of them "get it".   

[Reaganfan]

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

88% just 30 years ago?  Ewwwww...  I really would've hated living in the 80s.  As if the environment wasn't conservative enough, politicians had to pander to THAT electorate?  I understand they constituted 83% of the overall pop., so it's not terribly unrepresentative... but I sleep quite better at night knowing they are not the only people our leaders have to worry about. 

I probably should cool it a bit when it comes to my fellow white folks, I've spent the better part of this election cycle insulting them, but even after two Obama victories, I just don't think a lot of them "get it".   

"Get" what, exactly?

[LastVoter]

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

88% just 30 years ago?  Ewwwww...  I really would've hated living in the 80s.  As if the environment wasn't conservative enough, politicians had to pander to THAT electorate?  I understand they constituted 83% of the overall pop., so it's not terribly unrepresentative... but I sleep quite better at night knowing they are not the only people our leaders have to worry about. 

I probably should cool it a bit when it comes to my fellow white folks, I've spent the better part of this election cycle insulting them, but even after two Obama victories, I just don't think a lot of them "get it".   

"Get" what, exactly?

Public sector union wage jobs.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

88% just 30 years ago?  Ewwwww...  I really would've hated living in the 80s.  As if the environment wasn't conservative enough, politicians had to pander to THAT electorate?  I understand they constituted 83% of the overall pop., so it's not terribly unrepresentative... but I sleep quite better at night knowing they are not the only people our leaders have to worry about.  

I probably should cool it a bit when it comes to my fellow white folks, I've spent the better part of this election cycle insulting them, but even after two Obama victories, I just don't think a lot of them "get it".  

"Get" what, exactly?

That people who vote for Democrats, typically minorities, are not doing so for a handout, they're doing so because they feel they will at least be given a shot; that there will be SOME attempt to rectify the natural economic inequalities inherent in the U.S. free market economy.  Not to mention a very prevailing view that a few bad eggs (people who coast by on welfare checks, actively try to not work, what have you...) are representative of an overall population that does receive government assistance, and therefore requires a dismantling of the social safety nets we have in place, which is of course completely contradictory to reality.  And those are just two examples.  A lot of people in America just don't really know what it's like to struggle and don't understand how good they have it.  

Somehow, this election in many people's minds turned into socialism v. capitalism like no election we've had before, quite ironic considering Barack Obama is very, very far from a socialist.  

I said a lot of them, not all.  If you take this as me saying that no white person has ever struggled then you missed the point.

EDIT: and I didn't even touch on the utter disdain some have for unions, and attitude that I can't even believe came to be prevalent in America... a country that was founded on people fighting for their rights.  That is another thing many rich, white GOPers "don't get". 

[Badger]

"Family Ties" glorified conservatism??? You have got to be kidding me? That show was about as bleeding-heart, treehugging, liberal as you can get. Yes, Alex P. Keaton was a sympathetic character, but his conservatism was simply a means to get laughs, NEVER something that was morally applauded on the show. Quite the contrary.

You must have been reading too much conservapedia: http://www.conservapedia.com/Essay:Greatest_Conservative_TV_Shows

Indeed, if Naso had been old enough to watch it when it was on, as I was... he'd know Alex was for comic relief.

I mean... the guy had a Nixon lunchbox... less than 15 years after Watergate...

This. Reading Naso's worshipful idealization of a decade he was about 15 years too young to experience never fails to amuse.

His knowledge of the 80's based on sitcoms is like basing one's knowledge of medieval history on a Rennaissance Faire.

[GMantis]

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

And that electorate is never coming back, thankfully.

Why thankfully?

Although I don't think diversity is a bad thing...that comment was entirely in a political strategy sense.

I also don't think that diversity is a bad thing. I just don't think that a country with many diverse groups is inherently better than a homogeneous country. And there are indeed lots of examples showing that the opposite might be true.

Whites in the U.S. are also far from homogenous, and the U.S. has never been a homogenous country, at least not in the sense I think you're talking about.

I didn't say that the US was a homogeneous nation. In fact, a few of the examples I was thinking about were from US history - the Civil War, for example. Also, just because the US is fine with its current level of diversity, doesn't mean it will get better with more diversity. It doesn't automatically mean that it will get worse, of course. What I don't really understand is the attitude that more diversity on its own is something to celebrate.

[precocious]

Conservatism is dead. The oil wars, Katrina, and the theocon takeover killed it. The Republican party killed it by redefining conservatism as the wanton invasion of foreign countries and fear of everything new. "True" conservatives have no one else to blame for Obama's rise to power than themselves, the Democrat party could have nominated a dead, decomposing pig for president in 2008 and won two terms in the white house. Conservatism is dead, we have killed it.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

"Family Ties" glorified conservatism??? You have got to be kidding me? That show was about as bleeding-heart, treehugging, liberal as you can get. Yes, Alex P. Keaton was a sympathetic character, but his conservatism was simply a means to get laughs, NEVER something that was morally applauded on the show. Quite the contrary.

You must have been reading too much conservapedia: http://www.conservapedia.com/Essay:Greatest_Conservative_TV_Shows

Indeed, if Naso had been old enough to watch it when it was on, as I was... he'd know Alex was for comic relief.

I mean... the guy had a Nixon lunchbox... less than 15 years after Watergate...

This. Reading Naso's worshipful idealization of a decade he was about 15 years too young to experience never fails to amuse.

His knowledge of the 80's based on sitcoms is like basing one's knowledge of medieval history on a Rennaissance Faire.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Laugh_track

Yes, they accuse laugh tracks of being liberal propaganda.

[Nym90]

A few key points--

The economy of 2012 is not the economy of 1980, not by a mile, both in absolute terms and relative terms. Nate Silver effectively debunked the fallacy that they are comparable: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/30/economically-obama-is-no-jimmy-carter/

President Obama was perceived as much more successful than President Carter in foreign policy. Bin Laden killing vs. Iranian hostage crisis, etc.

Governor Romney is no Ronald Reagan, either charismatically or in terms of policy positions (far more conservative).

Yes, the electorate has changed, but given the above three points, the results of these two elections should not be surprising.

[sentinel]

I beat you: 88.4%

[Vosem]

Actually, in many ways things haven't changed that much. For example, Romney won whites by nearly the same margin as Reagan did. But whites were 88% of voters in 1980 and now they're 72%. So in a sense Romney was like Reagan. He only ran with the wrong electorate.

88% just 30 years ago?  Ewwwww...  I really would've hated living in the 80s.  As if the environment wasn't conservative enough, politicians had to pander to THAT electorate?  I understand they constituted 83% of the overall pop., so it's not terribly unrepresentative... but I sleep quite better at night knowing they are not the only people our leaders have to worry about. 

I probably should cool it a bit when it comes to my fellow white folks, I've spent the better part of this election cycle insulting them, but even after two Obama victories, I just don't think a lot of them "get it".   

Not sure you're allowed to complain about getting it, considering you've apparently spent the last two cycles insulting your own ethnic group. Without even touching upon political stances (where you also don't get it, but you're in good company), that's a pretty clear example of not getting it.

Conservatism is dead. The oil wars, Katrina, and the theocon takeover killed it. The Republican party killed it by redefining conservatism as the wanton invasion of foreign countries and fear of everything new. "True" conservatives have no one else to blame for Obama's rise to power than themselves, the Democrat party could have nominated a dead, decomposing pig for president in 2008 and won two terms in the white house. Conservatism is dead, we have killed it.

lol

[GMantis]

Conservatism is dead. The oil wars, Katrina, and the theocon takeover killed it. The Republican party killed it by redefining conservatism as the wanton invasion of foreign countries and fear of everything new. "True" conservatives have no one else to blame for Obama's rise to power than themselves, the Democrat party could have nominated a dead, decomposing pig for president in 2008 and won two terms in the white house. Conservatism is dead, we have killed it.

Many Republicans thought that the Democratic party was dying after the 2004 election...

[Simfan34]

Basically, the McGovern coalition that lead to disastrous defeat in 1972 was able to win in 2012. We'll have to live with that.