Christians: Why did you stay in the faith?

[DC Al Fine]

I'm looking for a reverse of the atheist conversion story. What was it that kept you going to church? Converts are welcome to share their stories, but I'm mostly looking for those who were raised Christian.

Personally, it was a combination of being raised in a fairly intellectual strand of Protestantism (Reformed) and having a large part of my social circle in the church. The former made me much more resistant to the "Christianity is stupid" meme floating around the internet/university campuses and the latter made it so that going to church was never really a chore. Of course my sincere belief in Christ's resurrection plays a large part in this as well.

How about you?

[Joe Biden 2020]

I stay with Christ because in Him, I'm happy.  In Him, I'm free.  Because of Him, all my sins - past, present, and future - are forgiven.  God has not only pardoned my sins, which were worthy of death and hell, but He has invited me to come live with Him for eternity.  I am so blessed, not because of anything I've done, but because of everything He is.

In the paraphrased words of the Apostle Peter - Where else would I go?  He has the Words of Life.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I thought about posting this in the memoirs thread sometime, but I put that on hold because of the election stuff I was doing, time to revive it.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I thought about posting this in the memoirs thread sometime, but I put that on hold because of the election stuff I was doing, time to revive it.

Yes, please do!

I'll have an answer here within the next few days (I hope), but I'm busy writing something else for most of this morning.

[ZuWo]

What BushOklahoma said. In addition, I have had times in my life both with and without Jesus, and the times I have lived under his guidance have been infinitely better.

[Vote UKIP!]

I also agree with BushOklahoma. Knowing what other religions teach, I simply cannot abandon Christ and His Church because there is no where else to go.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I largely agree with BushOklahoma, too.  You may be familiar for this argument for believing in God: if you believe in God and He doesn't exist, there is relatively little risk in that.  But if you don't believe in Him and He does exist, then there is much greater risk.  That's kind of how I see it with being a Christian (not just believing in God, but believing that Jesus is His Son and the Messiah).  I want to serve God and please Him with my life, and I also don't want to suffer the consequences of not accepting His grace and mercy.  For many years, I thought God was trying to keep me down and thus I didn't want much to do with him.  Since then, however, I have learned to come to Him when you need Him, and having someone who will never leave you, even if everyone else does, is one of the greatest things in the world that you can have.

[hawkeye59]

I largely agree with BushOklahoma, too.  You may be familiar for this argument for believing in God: if you believe in God and He doesn't exist, there is relatively little risk in that.  But if you don't believe in Him and He does exist, then there is much greater risk.  That's kind of how I see it with being a Christian (not just believing in God, but believing that Jesus is His Son and the Messiah).  I want to serve God and please Him with my life, and I also don't want to suffer the consequences of not accepting His grace and mercy.  For many years, I thought God was trying to keep me down and thus I didn't want much to do with him.  Since then, however, I have learned to come to Him when you need Him, and having someone who will never leave you, even if everyone else does, is one of the greatest things in the world that you can have.

Personally, I don't think a benevolent god would punish someone for not believing in them, and would judge them based on their actions, not their beliefs.

[John Dibble]

I largely agree with BushOklahoma, too.  You may be familiar for this argument for believing in God: if you believe in God and He doesn't exist, there is relatively little risk in that.  But if you don't believe in Him and He does exist, then there is much greater risk.

It's called Pascal's Wager, and it's a bad argument for a number of reasons.

1. Most Christians don't believe for this reason, and why should they? If this is your way of thinking, you don't actually believe it, and if God exists and holds to requiring faith do you honestly think he'd accept such weak faith?

2. The argument is a false dichotomy. There are a large number of religions making various claims about God or gods, not just Christianity. What if the Muslim religion is true? Or what if there's a God, but for some reason he only like atheists and punishes the religious? Aren't you taking a big risk by being Christian then? But of course that's silly - you can't believe everything since there are contradictions, so you just have to pick what you actually think is true.

[7,052,770]

If you believe in Jehovah, you're better off being a Christian, since Muslims and Jews believe Christians can go to Heaven, but (super-devout and conservative, anyway) Christians believe that Muslims and Jews go to Hell.

[hawkeye59]

If you believe in Jehovah, you're better off being a Christian, since Muslims and Jews believe Christians can go to Heaven, but (super-devout and conservative, anyway) Christians believe that Muslims and Jews go to Hell.

Very benevolent god you have there.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

You need to understand that the view of human nature involved is rather negative and certainly not at all 'humanist'.

[Alcon]

You need to understand that the view of human nature involved is rather negative and certainly not at all 'humanist'.

...And such an interesting understanding of fundamentalist Islam too.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

You need to understand that the view of human nature involved is rather negative and certainly not at all 'humanist'.

...And such an interesting understanding of fundamentalist Islam too.

I was actually talking to Hawkeye but, true, I think Harry may well be giving some types of Islam too much credit for the soteriology of other types.

[Alcon]

You need to understand that the view of human nature involved is rather negative and certainly not at all 'humanist'.

...And such an interesting understanding of fundamentalist Islam too.

I was actually talking to Hawkeye but, true, I think Harry may well be giving some types of Islam too much credit for the soteriology of other types.

Oh nah, I got you, I didn't mean for my post to sound like a continuation of yours.

[DC Al Fine]

If you believe in Jehovah, you're better off being a Christian, since Muslims and Jews believe Christians can go to Heaven, but (super-devout and conservative, anyway) Christians believe that Muslims and Jews go to Hell.

Super devout and conservative? Umm, that's a pretty standard position of most of the churches.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

If you believe in Jehovah, you're better off being a Christian, since Muslims and Jews believe Christians can go to Heaven, but (super-devout and conservative, anyway) Christians believe that Muslims and Jews go to Hell.

Super devout and conservative? Umm, that's a pretty standard position of most of the churches.

...Not...really? Theology around 'righteous pagans' can get a little weird but I've yet to hear of any mainline or, these days, a huge number of Catholic churches that will claim they're indisputably hellbound the lot of them.

[DC Al Fine]

If you believe in Jehovah, you're better off being a Christian, since Muslims and Jews believe Christians can go to Heaven, but (super-devout and conservative, anyway) Christians believe that Muslims and Jews go to Hell.

Super devout and conservative? Umm, that's a pretty standard position of most of the churches.

...Not...really? Theology around 'righteous pagans' can get a little weird but I've yet to hear of any mainline or, these days, a huge number of Catholic churches that will claim they're indisputably hellbound the lot of them.

I suppose standard was the wrong word to use. I mean that "Christians are the only ones saved" isn't exactly a small minority position within Christianity.

[TJ in Oregon]

If you believe in Jehovah, you're better off being a Christian, since Muslims and Jews believe Christians can go to Heaven, but (super-devout and conservative, anyway) Christians believe that Muslims and Jews go to Hell.

Super devout and conservative? Umm, that's a pretty standard position of most of the churches.

...Not...really? Theology around 'righteous pagans' can get a little weird but I've yet to hear of any mainline or, these days, a huge number of Catholic churches that will claim they're indisputably hellbound the lot of them.

The Catholic Church teaches that non-Christians may be saved if the reason why they don't believe in Christ isn't their fault ("invincible ignorance"). It's hard to tell exactly what that means but then again, it's God job to sort it all out not mine.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

If you believe in Jehovah, you're better off being a Christian, since Muslims and Jews believe Christians can go to Heaven, but (super-devout and conservative, anyway) Christians believe that Muslims and Jews go to Hell.

Super devout and conservative? Umm, that's a pretty standard position of most of the churches.

...Not...really? Theology around 'righteous pagans' can get a little weird but I've yet to hear of any mainline or, these days, a huge number of Catholic churches that will claim they're indisputably hellbound the lot of them.

The Catholic Church teaches that non-Christians may be saved if the reason why they don't believe in Christ isn't their fault ("invincible ignorance"). It's hard to tell exactly what that means but then again, it's God job to sort it all out not mine.

That's about what I thought. Official teachings in mainline churches tend to be vaguely similar, but err on the side of indulgence (except possibly for the Presbyterians, whose present theology I'm not terribly familiar with). Of course mainline churches enforce and promulgate their 'official' teachings a lot less strenuously, for better or for worse.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I largely agree with BushOklahoma, too.  You may be familiar for this argument for believing in God: if you believe in God and He doesn't exist, there is relatively little risk in that.  But if you don't believe in Him and He does exist, then there is much greater risk.  That's kind of how I see it with being a Christian (not just believing in God, but believing that Jesus is His Son and the Messiah).  I want to serve God and please Him with my life, and I also don't want to suffer the consequences of not accepting His grace and mercy.  For many years, I thought God was trying to keep me down and thus I didn't want much to do with him.  Since then, however, I have learned to come to Him when you need Him, and having someone who will never leave you, even if everyone else does, is one of the greatest things in the world that you can have.

Personally, I don't think a benevolent god would punish someone for not believing in them, and would judge them based on their actions, not their beliefs.

He does it to respect their decision not to recognize Him.

[afleitch]

I largely agree with BushOklahoma, too.  You may be familiar for this argument for believing in God: if you believe in God and He doesn't exist, there is relatively little risk in that.  But if you don't believe in Him and He does exist, then there is much greater risk.  That's kind of how I see it with being a Christian (not just believing in God, but believing that Jesus is His Son and the Messiah).  I want to serve God and please Him with my life, and I also don't want to suffer the consequences of not accepting His grace and mercy.  For many years, I thought God was trying to keep me down and thus I didn't want much to do with him.  Since then, however, I have learned to come to Him when you need Him, and having someone who will never leave you, even if everyone else does, is one of the greatest things in the world that you can have.

Personally, I don't think a benevolent god would punish someone for not believing in them, and would judge them based on their actions, not their beliefs.

He does it to respect their decision not to recognize Him.

Why, if there is a god does he give a damn? I mean really; why out of trillions of stars and billions of planets and millions of forms of life it's this planet and specifically one group of people in this planet that he 'revealed' himself to several thousand years ago, threw them a son (who was his own father) and then pissed off for 2000 years and counting? Does that not smack of a desert tribe making stuff up about the world to appeal to mans sense of inflated self importance rather than some omnipotent plan? And then to say 'Oh I fully respect your decision to not recognise me by punishing you eternally'

[DC Al Fine]

I largely agree with BushOklahoma, too.  You may be familiar for this argument for believing in God: if you believe in God and He doesn't exist, there is relatively little risk in that.  But if you don't believe in Him and He does exist, then there is much greater risk.  That's kind of how I see it with being a Christian (not just believing in God, but believing that Jesus is His Son and the Messiah).  I want to serve God and please Him with my life, and I also don't want to suffer the consequences of not accepting His grace and mercy.  For many years, I thought God was trying to keep me down and thus I didn't want much to do with him.  Since then, however, I have learned to come to Him when you need Him, and having someone who will never leave you, even if everyone else does, is one of the greatest things in the world that you can have.

Personally, I don't think a benevolent god would punish someone for not believing in them, and would judge them based on their actions, not their beliefs.

He does it to respect their decision not to recognize Him.

Why, if there is a god does he give a damn? I mean really; why out of trillions of stars and billions of planets and millions of forms of life it's this planet and specifically one group of people in this planet that he 'revealed' himself to several thousand years ago, threw them a son (who was his own father) and then pissed off for 2000 years and counting? Does that not smack of a desert tribe making stuff up about the world to appeal to mans sense of inflated self importance rather than some omnipotent plan? And then to say 'Oh I fully respect your decision to not recognise me by punishing you eternally'

If you are discussing the Christian notion of God, why do you believe you have any notion of how an omnipotent/omniscient being would act?

[TJ in Oregon]

In high school I wasn't especially religious. I went to Mass with my parents because it was expected of me but I basically went through the motions without caring much either way. It wasn't all that difficult to do since it was only an hour a week so I never really complained. I never rebelled in college. Seeing a more hedonistic cultural around me, though it wasn't entirely that way, made me think about my faith a lot more and ask myself whether not I really believed it or was just doing it to please my parents. The summer before my sophomore year I worked a bunch of hard, long hours in a warehouse removed from social contact from anyone I'd consider hanging out with for the entire summer. I spent the entire time working and running, thinking about the meaning of life and went back to college the next year energized about God. The college party scene was much more of a turn-off for me than it was a turn-on so that was certainly part of it.

Since then I've gone back and tried to learn a lot more about my faith, both doctrine and history. I keep telling myself I'm going to read the entire Bible but it's a long book and I keep stopping and starting so I'm somewhere in Corinthians at the moment and have only read fragments of the Old Testament. I've also read The Imitation of Christ and it has helped me through a few situations and let me think a bit more about what I should aspire to be. I also volunteered for a while in a program that drove around Cleveland to feed the homeless and I think that experience helped me to come closer to God. Helping other people can make me less angry and likely to be nasty to others in a number of situations.

Underlying my belief system is two basic views about the world, one of which I struggle with at times and the other I am about as convinced of as I could ever be. First, I believe in an intrinsic morality which holds if everyone agrees or if no one agrees, simply as a cold hard reality. Second, I believe in free will, though I occasionally have doubts about it and slip into a sort of nihilism in the sense that I question my purpose without a will. Out of that wretchedness I believe there must be something more than this messed up world, call it wishful thinking, call it whatever you'd like, but I believe it. I've gone through some periods of serious depression before and at times a faith in something more than this is all that's kept me getting out of bed each morning. I've long held the belief that there is no justice in this world and (despite having forgotten this lowering of expectations in the political world of late) find attractive the idea that what I do does matter in the next world and that I have the ability to actually choose what I do, that it hasn't already been determined.

[© tweed]

I'll have an answer here within the next few days (I hope), but I'm busy writing something else for most of this morning.

still waiting