Republican Parties of the Western states: Why so conservative?

[All Along The Watchtower]

Looking at the state party platforms of the Republican Parties in California, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico,  Nevada, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, and Arizona, it's kinda remarkable to me just how far to the right all of these state GOPs are.

And not just on economic issues, either; all of those states' Republican Parties are basically identical to the Texas or Alabama, etc. GOP in terms of abortion, gay marriage, stem  cell research, and immigration (perhaps especially this, which seems really dumb when you consider the huge immigrant populations of many of these Western states).

My question is: Why are these state's Republican Parties so conservative, especially on social issues and immigration? I guess it makes some sense for the Utah or Idaho GOP's to be very right-wing (Mormonism). But Colorado and California? Or Oregon and Washington?

Maybe this is why Republicans are losing elections in many Western states.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Because moderate Republicans don't exist anymore and the GOP base is coming from far right areas. It's not like California has any moderate Bay Area Republicans to balance it out anymore for example.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Because moderate Republicans don't exist anymore and the GOP base is coming from far right areas. It's not like California has any moderate Bay Area Republicans to balance it out anymore for example.

I suppose that's true, yeah. Also, the Bay Area used to have some quite conservative areas. Key words being, used to.

But let's not be too quick to call this a "rural" problem. Most of these states have few people living in their rural areas. Colorado, for example, is completely dominated by the Front Range in terms of population and power/influence. California is dominated by the Bay Area, Southern California, and relatively large Central Valley cities and their suburbs.

EDIT: The above is not directed at you, BRTD, but at people who say that the GOP is dominated by rural whites.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

1. Settlement patterns. Where are these Republicans and their parents and grandparents from? The rural parts of many of the Western states are Southerners or the descended from Southerners. "Lee didn't surrender, he just retreated to Montana". Also pre-1950, almost all the White populations of Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico, who weren't mormons, were either from dixie or were descendents of them. Think of the Southeast corner of New Mexico, which is basically an extention of Texas, politically.

After the 1950's, you had as part of the migration to the sunbelt, a large number of far right paleoconservatives from the Midwest to the these states. They settled first in the urban areas and then got pushed out to the suburbs of these cities as traditional patterns of white flight took place similar to other places. You had a large number of Okies and Arkies move to the Central Valley and Bakersfield area during the Depression. In the decades after the War, you had essentially half the state of Iowa move to SoCal along with many other midwesterners.

2. What else was there? So you have southerners and their descendents who were being converted to the GOP by the shift rightward, you had a midwestern GOP transplants who also were far right as well and then of course you had the mormons just as they were coming to embrace the more conservative GOP. All of this coming together in a region with few unions, minorities or dense and powerfull urban areas and their poltical concerns (like NY or Chicago) to tie them down.

As for the immigration position, opposition to immigration is natural for paleocons and dixie conservatives, and then you have the practical effects of being on the border and the sort of "front line" mentality that develops, especially as you see crime, property damage and even people killed by illegals who wouldn't be in the country if those damn, evil, good for nothing Feds would do the one thing they should do (defense, an industry which many of these people worked for in the Cold War and thus an area where gov't spending is just fine), by securing the border. 

[freepcrusher]

the Western states were traditionally the base of conservatism republicanism. Looking at old almanacs, the republicans in upstate California, Oregon, California were mostly of the LaFollette mold. Think of guys like McCloskey, Hatfield, Packwood, Pritchard etc.


The parts of the west known as the sunbelt or areas with large mormon populations was where the bulk of the far right guys were. Even 30 years ago, there were a lot of far right guys from the west:

Bob Dornan
Bill Dannemeyer
Carlos Moorhead
David Dreier (especially early in his career)
Duncan Hunter Sr
Dan Lungren
Paul Laxalt
Barry Goldwater Sr and Jr
Bob Stump
Eldon Rudd
Orrin Hatch
Jake Garn
Steve Symms
James McClure
James Hansen
Larry Craig
Malcolm Wallop
Bill Armstrong

[freepcrusher]

Because moderate Republicans don't exist anymore and the GOP base is coming from far right areas. It's not like California has any moderate Bay Area Republicans to balance it out anymore for example.

I suppose that's true, yeah. Also, the Bay Area used to have some quite conservative areas. Key words being, used to.

that's not really true except for maybe the Tri Valley area. If I recall, they elected a far right congressman for a few years in the 90s (Baker).

[Sbane]

I don't think Baker was far right. Correct me if I am wrong. I grew up in the Tri Valley and no way is it some conservative bastion. It is a pretty moderate area though, and pretty fiscally conservative. It's never been like Orange County though.

And to answer the OP's question, the Republican base in the west is very conservative so they elect conservatives in their primaries and these are the people who dictate what the platform should be. Maybe things will change in California now that the Republican party has hit rock bottom, but I am not sure. Also, anti-immigrant sentiment is very strong due to the fact that they see a lot of the immigrants from the south. Sort of like how deep south whites are the most Republican. And in states like AZ, these sentiments still win you elections and it did in California until the early 1990's.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Because moderate Republicans don't exist anymore and the GOP base is coming from far right areas. It's not like California has any moderate Bay Area Republicans to balance it out anymore for example.

I suppose that's true, yeah. Also, the Bay Area used to have some quite conservative areas. Key words being, used to.

that's not really true except for maybe the Tri Valley area. If I recall, they elected a far right congressman for a few years in the 90s (Baker).

Uh, heard of Charles Gubser? He was pretty darned conservative for his time, especially on the military. Represented San Jose and other parts of Santa Clara County from the 50s o the 70s.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Looking at the state party platforms of the Republican Parties in California, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Montana, New Mexico,  Nevada, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, and Arizona, it's kinda remarkable to me just how far to the right all of these state GOPs are.

And not just on economic issues, either; all of those states' Republican Parties are basically identical to the Texas or Alabama, etc. GOP in terms of abortion, gay marriage, stem  cell research, and immigration (perhaps especially this, which seems really dumb when you consider the huge immigrant populations of many of these Western states).

My question is: Why are these state's Republican Parties so conservative, especially on social issues and immigration? I guess it makes some sense for the Utah or Idaho GOP's to be very right-wing (Mormonism). But Colorado and California? Or Oregon and Washington?

Maybe this is why Republicans are losing elections in many Western states.

That's true in every state, not just in the West.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Because moderate Republicans don't exist anymore and the GOP base is coming from far right areas. It's not like California has any moderate Bay Area Republicans to balance it out anymore for example.

Alas, this is true.

[soniquemd21921]

Before the 1940's Republicans from the Western states represented the party's liberal wing. And they appear to have been not as partisan as New England/upstate New York Republicans because the Western states voted overwhelmingly for FDR all four times - even Oregon voted for FDR by a huge margin in 1936.

[freepcrusher]

Because moderate Republicans don't exist anymore and the GOP base is coming from far right areas. It's not like California has any moderate Bay Area Republicans to balance it out anymore for example.

I suppose that's true, yeah. Also, the Bay Area used to have some quite conservative areas. Key words being, used to.

that's not really true except for maybe the Tri Valley area. If I recall, they elected a far right congressman for a few years in the 90s (Baker).

Uh, heard of Charles Gubser? He was pretty darned conservative for his time, especially on the military. Represented San Jose and other parts of Santa Clara County from the 50s o the 70s.

I always found it interesting how in Silicon Valley you had someone like Gubser whose voting record was close to the median republican (and very conservative by bay area standards) and right next door was Don Edwards, who was a fellow traveler.

[Indy Texas]

When a party declines, the only people who stick around are the true believers who can't win and you create a vicious circle effect.

The California GOP is now essentially a social club for Inland Empire fundies. And the Democrats there are drunk on power and seem content to run the state further into the ground.

Oregon hasn't had a Republican governor since the mid-80s. Neither has Washington.

Colorado's Republicans nominated a Tea Party joke for Senate and abandoned their mediocre gubernatorial candidate for anti-immigration lunatic Tom Tancredo. Keep it up and you won't be able to find Republicans in Colorado other than the Bible thumpers in Fort Collins and the farmers in the eastern plains.

[smoltchanov]

When a party declines, the only people who stick around are the true believers who can't win and you create a vicious circle effect.

The California GOP is now essentially a social club for Inland Empire fundies. And the Democrats there are drunk on power and seem content to run the state further into the ground.

Oregon hasn't had a Republican governor since the mid-80s. Neither has Washington.

Colorado's Republicans nominated a Tea Party joke for Senate and abandoned their mediocre gubernatorial candidate for anti-immigration lunatic Tom Tancredo. Keep it up and you won't be able to find Republicans in Colorado other than the Bible thumpers in Fort Collins and the farmers in the eastern plains.

Speaking of Colorado you probably forgot Colorado Springs. But generally - i agree. BTW - the same now happens in North-East, where (including even New England - traditional "bastion of moderate Republicanism in party") Republican party becomes more and more conservative. Only "true believers" remain in the party (mostly)...

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Colorado's Republicans nominated a Tea Party joke for Senate and abandoned their mediocre gubernatorial candidate for anti-immigration lunatic Tom Tancredo. Keep it up and you won't be able to find Republicans in Colorado other than the Bible thumpers in Fort Collins and the farmers in the eastern plains.

Huh? Fort Collins is a Democratic-leaning college town.

[freepcrusher]

The California GOP is now essentially a social club for Inland Empire fundies.
 Keep it up and you won't be able to find Republicans in Colorado other than the Bible thumpers in Fort Collins and the farmers in the eastern plains.

if you look at most maps, those two areas you mentioned are not fundie strongholds. Granted, there might be a lot of under-the-radar "independent" churches that are defacto fundie but I always thought that the Inland Empire was a mix between catholic, mainline and a lot of unchurched. Fort Collins I'd guess would be a mix between mainline protestants and the unchurched.

[Indy Texas]

Colorado's Republicans nominated a Tea Party joke for Senate and abandoned their mediocre gubernatorial candidate for anti-immigration lunatic Tom Tancredo. Keep it up and you won't be able to find Republicans in Colorado other than the Bible thumpers in Fort Collins and the farmers in the eastern plains.

Huh? Fort Collins is a Democratic-leaning college town.

My mistake. I said Fort Collins and meant Colorado Springs. For some reason I was thinking the Air Force Academy was in Fort Collins and CSU was in CO Springs when in fact it's the other way around.

[Sbane]

The California GOP is now essentially a social club for Inland Empire fundies.
 Keep it up and you won't be able to find Republicans in Colorado other than the Bible thumpers in Fort Collins and the farmers in the eastern plains.

if you look at most maps, those two areas you mentioned are not fundie strongholds. Granted, there might be a lot of under-the-radar "independent" churches that are defacto fundie but I always thought that the Inland Empire was a mix between catholic, mainline and a lot of unchurched. Fort Collins I'd guess would be a mix between mainline protestants and the unchurched.

The inland empire certainly has a lot of fundie influence. And yes, lots of conservative Catholics as well. The same goes for a lot of Southern California actually.

[freepcrusher]

The California GOP is now essentially a social club for Inland Empire fundies.
 Keep it up and you won't be able to find Republicans in Colorado other than the Bible thumpers in Fort Collins and the farmers in the eastern plains.

if you look at most maps, those two areas you mentioned are not fundie strongholds. Granted, there might be a lot of under-the-radar "independent" churches that are defacto fundie but I always thought that the Inland Empire was a mix between catholic, mainline and a lot of unchurched. Fort Collins I'd guess would be a mix between mainline protestants and the unchurched.

The inland empire certainly has a lot of fundie influence. And yes, lots of conservative Catholics as well. The same goes for a lot of Southern California actually.

there is no county in CA where more than ten percent of the population is baptist
http://bowdenblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/bible_belt_map_baptist.gif

[Sbane]

The California GOP is now essentially a social club for Inland Empire fundies.
 Keep it up and you won't be able to find Republicans in Colorado other than the Bible thumpers in Fort Collins and the farmers in the eastern plains.

if you look at most maps, those two areas you mentioned are not fundie strongholds. Granted, there might be a lot of under-the-radar "independent" churches that are defacto fundie but I always thought that the Inland Empire was a mix between catholic, mainline and a lot of unchurched. Fort Collins I'd guess would be a mix between mainline protestants and the unchurched.

The inland empire certainly has a lot of fundie influence. And yes, lots of conservative Catholics as well. The same goes for a lot of Southern California actually.

there is no county in CA where more than ten percent of the population is baptist
http://bowdenblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/bible_belt_map_baptist.gif

Going by this logic, you don't think rural North Dakota is socially conservative either?

I was going to mention that fundies in California aren't southern baptists, but didn't think it would be necessary. Guess I was wrong. There are plenty of conservative evangelicals and socially conservative catholics in California. They just don't live in West LA. And many of the socially conservative catholics vote Democrat.

[freepcrusher]

The California GOP is now essentially a social club for Inland Empire fundies.
 Keep it up and you won't be able to find Republicans in Colorado other than the Bible thumpers in Fort Collins and the farmers in the eastern plains.

if you look at most maps, those two areas you mentioned are not fundie strongholds. Granted, there might be a lot of under-the-radar "independent" churches that are defacto fundie but I always thought that the Inland Empire was a mix between catholic, mainline and a lot of unchurched. Fort Collins I'd guess would be a mix between mainline protestants and the unchurched.

The inland empire certainly has a lot of fundie influence. And yes, lots of conservative Catholics as well. The same goes for a lot of Southern California actually.

there is no county in CA where more than ten percent of the population is baptist
http://bowdenblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/bible_belt_map_baptist.gif

Going by this logic, you don't think rural North Dakota is socially conservative either?

I was going to mention that fundies in California aren't southern baptists, but didn't think it would be necessary. Guess I was wrong. There are plenty of conservative evangelicals and socially conservative catholics in California. They just don't live in West LA. And many of the socially conservative catholics vote Democrat.

well I do think that the IE is a fairly socon place. Prop 8 did very well there. It seems like back when LA County was whiter, I would assume that there would be a lot of interracial polarization with the South Bay, Gateway Cities and SGV whites being republican and the West LA whites voting heavily democrat. I think part of that would be from the type of people who originally settled those areas.

[Sbane]

The south bay (especially thinking of Torrance here) and the SGV are suburban areas. Those who wanted to live in suburbs lived here and this is a factor in their voting habits obviously. The PV peninsula has always been Republican because they are super rich but not a lot of people associated with hollywood live there. Mostly people who work in other businesses and especially all the commerce associated with the port of LA and Long Beach live there. Although Obama cut down on the margins a lot in 2008, these areas swung back fairly hard as far as I can tell from precinct results. The beach cities also used to be Republican but have become more Democrat since you don't have to be super rich to live there and these areas have become culturally estranged from the Republican party. These areas are pretty socially liberal, and don't make enough money to forget about it and still vote Republican.

[TNF]

Western states were traditionally progressive Republican states prior to the New Deal. However, a large swath of Southern migrants came out west, found that they really couldn't take over the Democratic Party out there (where most of the progressive Republicans, many socialists, labor and ethnic minorities dominated party organizations) and registered as Republicans instead - it was a much easier takeover. The Southwestern conservatism of Nixon*, Goldwater, and Reagan has its roots in Southern conservatism.



* Nixon might not look conservative by 2012 standards, but by 1972 standards, he was a pretty standard GOP conservative, so don't pull the "Nixon wasn't even conservative" BS that crops up all over the internet in some sort of strange Nixon apologism wave.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Western states were traditionally progressive Republican states prior to the New Deal. However, a large swath of Southern migrants came out west, found that they really couldn't take over the Democratic Party out there (where most of the progressive Republicans, many socialists, labor and ethnic minorities dominated party organizations) and registered as Republicans instead - it was a much easier takeover. The Southwestern conservatism of Nixon*, Goldwater, and Reagan has its roots in Southern conservatism.



* Nixon might not look conservative by 2012 standards, but by 1972 standards, he was a pretty standard GOP conservative, so don't pull the "Nixon wasn't even conservative" BS that crops up all over the internet in some sort of strange Nixon apologism wave.

While there was a substantial number of Southern migrants to the Western states, the largest number of migrants to the West came from the Midwest and the border states/Upper South.

I think it's too simplistic to call it "Southern" anyway. People from all over came out West in the post-war years. Also, the Southwest was conservative for a long-time-Los Angeles and Southern California had a reputation in the early 1900s for Christian fundamentalism, not to mention the many large landowners and ranchers in the West having predictably right-wing economic views.  

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Most of the Southern migration had already occured to those places. One example would the process by which AZ and NM finally became states, largely because southerners moved in and made them white enough for the Southern Democrats to not block statehood. A simplification sure, but it gets you the general idea. Montana and Nevada (those who weren't Mormon that is, followed a similar pattern) in terms of being settled by Southerners after the Civil War. Ironic by NV first got statehood prematurely to boost Lincoln's chances at winning in 1864. Washington and Oregon were settled first by New Englanders travelling the Oregon Trail in the 1840's at the same time MI and other places in the Midwest were being populated by them.  Look at the 1940 election map and you see the pattern very clearly.

Most of the people that came to the west in the Post war (and even in the Depression) were largerly midwesterners driven west first by the Depression and then by the post war job opportunities. Military service had a lot do with it as well as many elected to return to the area after their service ended. Depending on where in the midwest they were from, some even had New England origins, if you were to trace their families back to the previous great westward push.

There is just as much a Midwest and even New England influence on "Western Conservatism" as there is Southern. What people have got to remember is that when they left the midwest and their great-grandparents left New England, those places were much different (far more protestant and fervently so for one), then today. Since the South is the only place that is still that similar, people tend to miss the connection and attribute it to Southern influence exclusively.