ACLU Defends Right Wing free speech :o
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Bono
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« on: February 07, 2005, 05:43:52 PM »

Review Journal.com

Lecture causes dispute

UNLV accused of limiting free speech
By RICHARD LAKE
REVIEW-JOURNAL



Hans Hoppe

A UNLV professor under fire for comments he made about homosexuals during a class lecture last year demanded Friday that the university stop threatening to punish him.

"I have done absolutely nothing wrong," said the professor, Hans Hoppe, a conservative libertarian economist with almost 20 years teaching experience at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.

The American Civil Liberties Union of Nevada, on Hoppe's behalf, sent a letter to UNLV officials alleging that the university violated Hoppe's free speech rights and his right to academic freedom.

"The charge against professor Hoppe is totally specious and without merit," reads the letter from ACLU attorney Allen Lichtenstein.

He said they would sue the university if necessary, though they hope to avoid it.

UNLV officials would not comment on the case, saying they cannot talk publicly about personnel matters.

Hoppe, 55, a world-renowned economist, author and speaker, said he was giving a lecture to his money and banking class in March when the incident occurred.

The subject of the lecture was economic planning for the future. Hoppe said he gave several examples to the class of about 30 upper-level undergraduate students on groups who tend to plan for the future and groups who do not.

Very young and very old people, for example, tend not to plan for the future, he said. Couples with children tend to plan more than couples without.

As in all social sciences, he said, he was speaking in generalities.

Another example he gave the class was that homosexuals tend to plan less for the future than heterosexuals.

Reasons for the phenomenon include the fact that homosexuals tend not to have children, he said. They also tend to live riskier lifestyles than heterosexuals, Hoppe said.

He said there is a belief among some economists that one of the 20th century's most influential economists, John Maynard Keynes, was influenced in his beliefs by his homosexuality. Keynes espoused a "spend it now" philosophy to keep an economy strong, much as President Bush did after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Hoppe said the portion of the lecture on homosexuals lasted perhaps 90 seconds, while the entire lecture took up his 75-minute class.

There were no questions or any discussion from the students about the homosexual comments, he said.

"I have given lectures like this for 18 years," said Hoppe, a native of Germany who joined UNLV's faculty in 1986. "I have given this lecture all over the world and never had any complaints about it."

But within days of the lecture, he was notified by school officials that a student had lodged an informal complaint. The student said Hoppe's comments offended him.

A series of formal hearings ensued.

Hoppe said that, at the request of university officials, he clarified in his next class that he was speaking in generalities only and did not mean to offend anyone.

As an example of what he meant, he offered this: Italians tend to eat more spaghetti than Germans, and Germans tend to eat more sauerkraut than Italians. It is not universally true, he said, but it is generally true.

The student then filed a formal complaint, Hoppe said, alleging that Hoppe did not take the complaint seriously.

He said university officials first said they would issue him a letter of reprimand and dock him a week's pay.

That option was rejected by Hoppe's dean and by the university provost, Hoppe said.

More hearings ensued, he said. In the end, the university gave him until Friday to accept its latest offer of punishment: It would issue him a letter of reprimand and he would give up his next pay increase.

Hoppe, a tenured full professor, contacted the ACLU on the recommendation of an attorney friend of his. Hoppe is now their client.

"I felt like I was the victim," he said, "not the student."

ACLU officials said the validity of Hoppe's economic theories does not matter. It is his right to espouse them in class.

"We don't subscribe to Hans' theories and certainly understand why some students find them offensive," said Gary Peck, the ACLU of Nevada's executive director.

"But academic freedom means nothing if it doesn't protect the right of professors to present scholarly ideas that are relevant to their curricula, even if they are controversial and rub people the wrong way."

Hoppe said he is dumbfounded by the university's response to the student's complaint. It is not his job, he said, to consider how a student might feel about economic theories.

"Our task is to teach what we consider to be right," he said. The offended student, he said, should have been told to "grow up."

Hoppe protested that university officials declined to speak to other students in the class to find out what actually happened and even rejected letters he solicited from a half-dozen students.

UNLV's general counsel, Richard Linstrom, would not talk about Hoppe's case, but said the university values free speech.

"The administration of UNLV is fully committed to academic freedom in all respects," he said. Linstrom said he was in a Board of Regents meeting most of Friday and had not seen the ACLU's letter.

Lichtenstein, the ACLU lawyer, said the university's response to Hoppe's situation might stifle free speech on the campus.

"If he can be silenced, that's going to create self-censorship among other faculty members who won't say anything controversial," he said. "Who's going to lose in all this? The students."
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Jake
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2005, 06:23:17 PM »

I can't see the controversy.  He states the facts. 
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Alcon
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2005, 06:59:37 PM »

Hey! This is the sort of thing I like the ACLU for.

A lot I could do without, but when it stops showing a leftist bias, it's a useful organization.
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Bono
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2005, 12:13:14 PM »

bumper
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I spent the winter writing songs about getting better
BRTD
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2005, 01:52:55 PM »

This is why I refuse to join the ACLU. This and defending crap like NAMBLA. T
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angus
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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2005, 02:03:22 PM »

This is why I refuse to join the ACLU. This and defending crap like NAMBLA. T

ROFL.

"I got some rock candy in my pocket little boy.  You have big, strong hands, why don't you see if you can reach in there and find the candy."

"That's a good little boy.  Now, I bet your mother doesn't want you to be eating candy, so let's not mention this to her, okay?"

dude, you ought to get a really old man with a scruffy voice to do that bit of voice over while your band does a repetitive grungy 3-chord bridge, crescendo e ralantando poco a poco, till you get to just before where he says okay.  Then accompaniment drops out, and his old voice says, Okay?  and a little boy voice says, "okay."  or maybe Oh Tay, like buckwheat.  Then, after just the briefest pause, go into a hard, fast, bass-backed screaching guitar lead.  See if you can work that in.  (but let's not mention it to your mother, okay?)  Wink
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angus
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2005, 02:17:35 PM »

Here's a little lyric I worked on for you.  you can have if you like:



ddddddddffffffffddddddddeeeeeeee

I'm a sick bastard look at me

ddddddddffffffffddddddddeeeeeeee

been reading hustler since I was three


ddddddddffffffffddddddddeeeeeeee

all the little girls used to laugh at me


ddddddddffffffffddddddddeeeeeeee

now they sing along delightfully



'Cause I'm a Sick Bastard
I don't know why
I'm a sick bastard
they think I'm so fly

.....
I don't know why


it needs a bit of work.  I'll try to finish it if I have time later.

anyway, the point is, you do the song, but dedicate it to the ACLU.  The fans will love it.  People eat that kind of crap up.  I remember in my youth, every hard rock band I was in, the more we insulted people, or the more we insulted their sensibilities, the more they liked it.  Especially the tattooed, facial jewelery crowd.   Oasis did this interview about how their female fans were empty headed morons whose main role in life was to be their sperm depositories.  All that did was get them more attention and more female fans.  GWAR used to spray the audience with fake feces and fake menstrual blood.  It was so cool.  The fans would rush the stage just to be sprayed and pissed on.  I have this pair of sneakers that are still stained red from the experience.  (This was from the Lupe's show in Providence, RI that I mentioned in the RI thread.)

As for the ACLU, they're consistent.  They are at one with Voltaire's admonitions.  I have no serious problem with them.  I don't always agree with the groups they support, but in fact I do admire and respect their consistent philosophy.

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A18
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2005, 02:17:41 PM »

Does the ACLU defend gun rights?
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angus
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2005, 02:22:16 PM »


"The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control. We believe that the Constitution contains no barriers to reasonable regulations of gun ownership. If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns.

Most opponents of gun control concede that the Second Amendment certainly does not guarantee an individual's right to own bazookas, missiles or nuclear warheads. Yet these, like rifles, pistols and even submachine guns, are arms.

The question therefore is not whether to restrict arms ownership, but how much to restrict it. If that is a question left open by the Constitution, then it is a question for Congress to decide. "
[/b]
  from the aclu.

http://www.aclu.org/PolicePractices/PolicePractices.cfm?ID=9621&c=25

as I said, I don't always agree with them, but they're consistent.
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Bono
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2005, 02:28:21 PM »

This is why I refuse to join the ACLU. This and defending crap like NAMBLA. T

whats wrong with the National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes? Roll Eyes
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angus
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« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2005, 02:42:24 PM »

This is why I refuse to join the ACLU. This and defending crap like NAMBLA. T

whats wrong with the National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes? Roll Eyes

finally, someone who enjoys quality programming appears among the geeks.
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Bono
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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2005, 05:46:09 PM »


Most opponents of gun control concede that the Second Amendment certainly does not guarantee an individual's right to own bazookas, missiles or nuclear warheads. Yet these, like rifles, pistols and even submachine guns, are arms.



Can you guess what I'm thinking?
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Gabu
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« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2005, 05:47:42 PM »


Most opponents of gun control concede that the Second Amendment certainly does not guarantee an individual's right to own bazookas, missiles or nuclear warheads. Yet these, like rifles, pistols and even submachine guns, are arms.

Can you guess what I'm thinking?

"I don't concede that because I'm a nutcase who wants the global annihilation of civilization as we know it."

Oh wait, maybe not that last bit. Smiley
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angus
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2005, 05:55:02 PM »


Most opponents of gun control concede that the Second Amendment certainly does not guarantee an individual's right to own bazookas, missiles or nuclear warheads. Yet these, like rifles, pistols and even submachine guns, are arms.



Can you guess what I'm thinking?

You're either thinking about Ned and Jimbo from SouthPark, or you're thinking that they're cleverly trying to lump them together in order to oppress all gun ownership rights, or that they have made the case for missile rights.   Or possibly about dinner, depending on what time it is over there.  I'm actually thinking about all those things.
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