What changed Hillary Clinton's public persona?
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  What changed Hillary Clinton's public persona?
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Author Topic: What changed Hillary Clinton's public persona?  (Read 1885 times)
Reaganfan
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« on: December 02, 2012, 12:28:26 PM »

Is anyone else surprised by Hillary Clinton's changing public persona?

I remember sitting with my parents in the fall of 2000, watching David Letterman make jokes about Hillary "Carpetbagger" Clinton. I remember after 9/11, Hillary was loudly booed at a Concert for New York City and a popular but distasteful internet meme at the time was "The Sexiest Picture" of Hillary Clinton, which had her in a mask around Ground Zero. In 2003, many people made a big deal about her Gandhi and the gas station joke/gaffee.

Then, she runs for President and loses the primary to Barack Obama in 2008.

Now, I do believe she's done a good job as SOS, but even still, what changed the public perception of Hillary Clinton?
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Beet
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2012, 12:33:44 PM »

A lot of it is pity from 2008, which as one of the biggest and longest standing HRC supporters here I personally find very distasteful. But if it helps her I won't discourage it, honestly. And really, who says it's changed all that much? If she runs the claws will come out against her, that's one thing you can take to the bank.
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2012, 12:35:01 PM »


Then, she runs for President and loses the primary to Barack Obama in 2008.


There you go. Had she gotten then nomination, she would be public enemy number one of the right still. When Obama one, it gave the GOP a new number one nemesis.

If people think the GOP gave Obama hell in his first term, imagine if it was another Clinton instead. It would have been even worse.
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2012, 12:50:05 PM »


That.
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Avelaval
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2012, 12:59:11 PM »
« Edited: December 02, 2012, 05:21:47 PM by Thanks for all the fish! »

Surprised a perceptive guy like you needs to ask.  People demonize politicians.  It's as simple as that.  Right now, Hillary Clinton is not holding elected office, running for elected office, or commenting much on elected officials, and so she is not demonized.  If she runs in 2016, watch that change.

As an exercise, look up some newspapers from the early Reagan years, and note how poor his public perception was.  Do the same for Bush Sr. and Clinton.  They're all fairly popular nowadays.

McCain hasn't been keeping his mouth shut, so he doesn't get this effect.  Same with Cheney.  If Palin had faded away post election, she would probably elicit considerable pity from the public for being thrust into such a high pressure situation.  As it stands, she's not getting a popularity boost.  Bush Jr. may never be popular, but he's keeping quiet which will help his general perception in years to come.

On the democrat side, Kerry is respected somewhat more these days than when he was running.  Gore's kinda neutral at this point: he was vocal for a while but quiet now (plus the added popular support for global warming kinda helps his case).  Carter was never shy about commenting on sitting presidents, so he continues to have a negative perception.
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Vosem
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2012, 02:07:46 PM »

Secretaries of State are popular, for whatever reason, in today's America. Clinton is popular, Rice is popular, Powell is popular, the few who have heard of Albright like her. SoS is a ticket to popularity.
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Likely Voter
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2012, 02:25:29 PM »

I think there is also a bit of 90s nostalgia, perhaps with rose colored glasses. Look at Bill Clinton's ratings. The last 11 years have been one calamity after another and I think people look back on the Clinton era more fondly now.
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2012, 02:41:27 PM »

I think there is also a bit of 90s nostalgia, perhaps with rose colored glasses. Look at Bill Clinton's ratings. The last 11 years have been one calamity after another and I think people look back on the Clinton era more fondly now.

Yeah public perception changes. If I would have told you in 2001 that Hillary Clinton would be as popular as she was in 2011/2012, it would have been hard to believe. Also, if I came back from the future and told you that the President of the United States five years from now is President Bush, you might scratch your head, but it could happen. That's politics.

In 1993 when President Bush left office, who would have thought that 10-15 years later, the White House would be occupied by a President Bush?
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Paul Kemp
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2012, 03:46:35 PM »

I think there is also a bit of 90s nostalgia, perhaps with rose colored glasses. Look at Bill Clinton's ratings. The last 11 years have been one calamity after another and I think people look back on the Clinton era more fondly now.

Yeah public perception changes. If I would have told you in 2001 that Hillary Clinton would be as popular as she was in 2011/2012, it would have been hard to believe. Also, if I came back from the future and told you that the President of the United States five years from now is President Bush, you might scratch your head, but it could happen. That's politics.

In 1993 when President Bush left office, who would have thought that 10-15 years later, the White House would be occupied by a President Bush?

So you're telling me things change over time? What groundbreaking insight, Michael.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2012, 04:01:46 PM »

Is anyone else surprised by Hillary Clinton's changing public persona?

I remember sitting with my parents in the fall of 2000, watching David Letterman make jokes about Hillary "Carpetbagger" Clinton.

In the election, she then defeated Rick Lazio by a wider than expected margin.

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Some people booed - some people have always disliked her.

What changed is that hating her was a partisan issue in the 1990s. When she ran for Senator in a diligent, low-key way, she earned a lot of respect, and when she trounced Lazio, she was seen as having earned it. Then she went to the Senate and, again, went in as a low-key freshman determined to do her homework.

As the Clinton era faded, people could judge him in light of the Bush presidency, which made her look better, plus she didn't seem like a politician, as people said.

The issue of Bill's infidelity and her staying with him went out of the news, too.

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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2012, 04:16:40 PM »

At first, I was surprised that everyone and their mother suddenly adored her but then I realized that most Secretaries of State are pretty popular. Mind you, an overwhelming majority of people can't tell you what the hell she's doing in her role, can't tell you where she has been recently, etc. but they love the job she's doing! Add on the fact that she was a well known figure before she took the role and also had half of the Democratic party in her corner during a Presidential race. That makes for a very popular figure. What really surprised me was how she was portrayed as this working class, Average Joe hero during the 2008 primaries. I guess it helped that Obama was seen as the choice of "the elite." It's still a long way to come considering her public perception from 1992-1994ish.

I strongly believe that the Hillary love will die down considerably if she runs. All of these people around here that are suddenly on her side? I bet most of them go back to despising her because someone will emerge as the Obama of 2016. I know the situation ended up being different as we got closer to 2008 but remember that Hillary was wracking up huge margins in early primary polls from 2006-2008...
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afleitch
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« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2012, 04:27:04 PM »

Alot of people treated her like sh-t because she stayed with Bill or because she wanted a life in politics after her husband's had ended. They didn't like her because she was intelligent, or despite being a good mother didn't look like a 'mom' when she was First Lady. I like Hillary; I hated what her advisers made her become in 2008 because she looked so uncomfortable. As SoS she has been so at ease with herself and that sort of redeems her in the eyes of the public.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2012, 09:50:40 PM »

I strongly believe that the Hillary love will die down considerably if she runs. All of these people around here that are suddenly on her side? I bet most of them go back to despising her because someone will emerge as the Obama of 2016. I know the situation ended up being different as we got closer to 2008 but remember that Hillary was wracking up huge margins in early primary polls from 2006-2008...

She was beating Kerry and Edwards by ~20 point margins in the very early 2008 primary polls back in 2005.  Nothing like the 40+ point margins she's winning by now.

She's far stronger within the party now than she was in 2004-06.  Back then, she was sufficiently polarizing that many many people thought she'd be a sure loser in a general election, and pragmatic Dems were hoping for a Bayh or Warner.  Nobody thinks that now.  Even if her star dims and she falls back to Earth, it's not going to dim that far, such that people regard her as a sure loser in a general election.  She also had far more opposition back then from the base of the party, primarily because of the Iraq War.  Hardly anyone cares about that anymore.  And even if another Obama emerged, it wouldn't work this time.  We've done the black president thing.  For reasons of identity politics within the Democratic Party, the next big thing is a female president.  Clinton is the most obvious vehicle by which to make that happen.

Anyway, that's why she's a near lock for the nomination if she runs.  She's too popular within the Democratic Party to lose at this point, barring some really strange unexpected circumstances.  But you're right that her star could certainly dim **within the general electorate**.  While she'd probably have an easy time at the nomination, the general election is far harder to forecast, because we don't know what the political situation will be in four years.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2012, 09:57:50 PM »

Sure, she doesn't have the Iraq War vote hanging around her neck anymore but whose to say the Dems won't be wanting to move past the Clinton's in 2016? People may want something new. They may be ready to finally close the door on that (and other) dynasties. She also won't be in the news for the next four years. Those forty point margins are coming down. No doubt about it.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2012, 06:42:11 PM »

Being out of the domestic spotlight.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2012, 06:50:41 PM »

This persona change started during the 08 campaign. Hillary moved away from the liberal lioness she has been demonized by the right for being for nearly 20 years and shifted more towards the middle to appeal to white women and the working class. Funny thing is, she was in their corner, but they took a long time to warm to her.

I think it's a combination of things, time, removal from the domestic spotlight (as RB suggests) and people realising she was nowhere near as bad as she was made out to be.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2012, 06:52:50 PM »

Sure, she doesn't have the Iraq War vote hanging around her neck anymore but whose to say the Dems won't be wanting to move past the Clinton's in 2016?

Given how they used Bill during that campaign, I don't think they want to move past the Clinton's.
People have dear memories of the 90's.
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Ogre Mage
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« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 08:07:10 PM »

She soldiered on through adversity, becoming a better, more formidable public servant and politician each time.  Her arc -- from First Lady to U.S. Senator to presidential candidate to Secretary of State -- is unique in American politics.
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tallguy23
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« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2012, 08:09:54 PM »

I can only speak for myself. A huge reason I disliked Hillary before was how fake and scripted she came across. Obama was much more genuine and less of a typical politician (at least in the early stages of the primaries). Now as SoS, Hillary has relaxed and allowed her normal side to come out. She's much more likeable and is actually showcasing her skills as a leader and global power player. Not to mention she's showing her sense of humor now, which is great in my opinion.
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2012, 08:17:28 PM »

I can only speak for myself. A huge reason I disliked Hillary before was how fake and scripted she came across. Obama was much more genuine and less of a typical politician (at least in the early stages of the primaries). Now as SoS, Hillary has relaxed and allowed her normal side to come out. She's much more likeable and is actually showcasing her skills as a leader and global power player. Not to mention she's showing her sense of humor now, which is great in my opinion.

Indeed. 2008 Hillary was a faux. Now being the SoS does wonders to your image.
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stegosaurus
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« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2012, 08:31:33 PM »

It is quite the anomaly, at least for 2008 Obama primary voters, who spent the over a year calling her a fascist, a war-monger, a corporatist, etc. I guess the change from Obama's enemy #1 to a high ranking member of his cabinet after the fact did wonders for her in that department.

Or maybe it was that stupid cell phone meme; the average American, sadly, is easily swayed by one's status in pop culture...probably because economics and foreign policy are hard and memes aren't.
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benconstine
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« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2012, 08:34:20 PM »

Or maybe it was that stupid cell phone meme; the average American, sadly, is easily swayed by one's status in pop culture...probably because economics and foreign policy are hard and memes aren't.

That was only made possible by her existing popularity.
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