GOP Senator, a deficit hawk and tax reform champion: Let's Raise Rates

[Blue3]

And so they begin to cave... much earlier than I expected, too.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/05/gop-senator-backs-tax-rate-hike-on-wealthy/

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[Frodo]

Now that the GOP has gone flexible on taxes, we should go flexible on entitlements.  You cannot realistically expect to make a deal without giving them something in exchange, like the following:    

-enacting medical malpractice reform,
-increasing the Medicare and Social Security eligibility age to 70,
-reducing the tax break for employer-provided health insurance,
-capping Medicare growth beginning FY 2013,
-tightening eligibility for Social Security disability benefits,
-indexing Social Security benefits to inflation as opposed to wages,

[DC Al Fine]

Now that the GOP has gone flexible on taxes, we should go flexible on entitlements.  You cannot realistically expect to make a deal without giving them something in exchange, like the following:    

-enacting medical malpractice reform,
-increasing the Medicare and Social Security eligibility age to 70,
-reducing the tax break for employer-provided health insurance,
-capping Medicare growth beginning FY 2013,
-tightening eligibility for Social Security disability benefits,
-indexing Social Security benefits to inflation as opposed to wages,

All good ideas.

[Brittain33]

Raising the Medicare age to 70 is a terrible, counterproductive idea.

[Maxwell]

Coburn has been in favor of raising taxes for a while, you're late.

Tom Coburn on fiscal issues, unlike Inhofe, is a serious person.

[Blue3]

Coburn has been in favor of raising taxes for a while, you're late.

Tom Coburn on fiscal issues, unlike Inhofe, is a serious person.

I know, but this is the first time he's said he wants to raise the RATES (even prefers it, for the fiscal cliff negotiations). The first time I think any GOP Senator has said this.

And you're right, Coburn is serious. And other Republicans treat Coburn seriously.

All reasons why this is news.

[Torie]

Coburn is into stating publicly inescapable numeric truths without fear of what it might do to his career. That is why I admire him. He is an island of guts in a sea of the gutless.

[Sbane]

Now that the GOP has gone flexible on taxes, we should go flexible on entitlements.  You cannot realistically expect to make a deal without giving them something in exchange, like the following:   

-enacting medical malpractice reform,
-increasing the Medicare and Social Security eligibility age to 70,
-reducing the tax break for employer-provided health insurance,
-capping Medicare growth beginning FY 2013,
-tightening eligibility for Social Security disability benefits,
-indexing Social Security benefits to inflation as opposed to wages,

How do you propose capping the growth of Medicare?

Also how should people pay for health insurance till the age of 70?

[memphis]

Raising the Medicare age to 70 is a terrible, counterproductive idea.

^^^^^^
People under 70 use a tiny percent of Medicare funds. The real money is in the final year or two of life. But people would not retire because they need insurance and so there would be fewer jobs for everybody else.

[Sbane]

Raising the Medicare age to 70 is a terrible, counterproductive idea.

^^^^^^
People under 70 use a tiny percent of Medicare funds. The real money is in the final year or two of life. But people would not retire because they need insurance and so there would be fewer jobs for everybody else.

Or even likelier, they would get laid off before that. I think making those under 70 pay more out of pocket for Medicare would be a better idea. Hell, extend Medicare to everyone and make them pay most of the costs as far as I am concerned. We need to get off the employer provided health system.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

And so they begin to cave... much earlier than I expected, too.

You're a wee bit late to the party... he said this a while ago.

[anvi]

Anyone who is actually a deficit hawk knows we have to raise revenues.  How best to do it is an open question.  But I'm impressed with Coburn's pragmatic approach to the present situation.

BTW, sbane, just a question out of curiosity.  You say above that we have to get off of the employer-provided health insurance model.  But on other threads recently you have advocated the Bismarck model.  Though it has signature features of other universal coverage models such as non-profit insurance and annually negotiated caps on medical costs, the Bismarck model resembles are model not only in that it features private providers but is also, to a considerable degree, financed through employer-employee payroll deductions.  Are you sure you prefer Bismarck?

[fezzyfestoon]

Coburn, for better or worse, is not an idiot. I'm not exactly surprised, but still impressed.

[Sbane]

Anyone who is actually a deficit hawk knows we have to raise revenues.  How best to do it is an open question.  But I'm impressed with Coburn's pragmatic approach to the present situation.

BTW, sbane, just a question out of curiosity.  You say above that we have to get off of the employer-provided health insurance model.  But on other threads recently you have advocated the Bismarck model.  Though it has signature features of other universal coverage models such as non-profit insurance and annually negotiated caps on medical costs, the Bismarck model resembles are model not only in that it features private providers but is also, to a considerable degree, financed through employer-employee payroll deductions.  Are you sure you prefer Bismarck?

Of course employers pay a part of it. But whether or not you have health insurance should not be based on if you have a job or not. I have always advocated paying for it with increased payroll taxes. From the employer's stand point, having to pay a relatively stable payroll tax must be more desirable than paying insurance premiums that rise every year. Especially if you are a small to medium size business.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Here's the video
http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/12/05/sen-coburn-joins-chorus-calling-for-wealthiests-tax-rates-to-go-up/
(he makes the statement about 6 min in)

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This is a more sensible interpretation of what he was saying I think.   
In any case, his point is that he believes that raising rates now and waiting to do a more fundamental tax reform later would be better.  I don't see how this works. 

The GOP is willing to do tax reform that brings in $1 T or so more revenue while keeping rates at or below current levels.  The Democrats want to raise even more revenue than that by increasing rates. But I don't see how the GOP is ever going to go along with a tax reform that raises rates.  So the only way rates rise are by the Bush tax cuts to expire for the highest brackets, with most or all tax expenditures kept in place.  But once rates are raised, why would the Democrats be willing to do a tax reform that is going to have to lower rates back down (at least somewhat) in order to get GOP support? 

[Napoleon]

Now that the GOP has gone flexible on taxes, we should go flexible on entitlements.  You cannot realistically expect to make a deal without giving them something in exchange, like the following:   

-enacting medical malpractice reform,
-increasing the Medicare and Social Security eligibility age to 70,
-reducing the tax break for employer-provided health insurance,
-capping Medicare growth beginning FY 2013,
-tightening eligibility for Social Security disability benefits,
-indexing Social Security benefits to inflation as opposed to wages,

All good ideas.

I agree, except for raising the Medicare and Social Security ages.

[Napoleon]

Raising the Medicare age to 70 is a terrible, counterproductive idea.

^^^^^^
People under 70 use a tiny percent of Medicare funds. The real money is in the final year or two of life. But people would not retire because they need insurance and so there would be fewer jobs for everybody else.

Someone having a job doesn't mean someone else loses out on a job...

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

-enacting medical malpractice reform,
-increasing the Medicare and Social Security eligibility age to 70,
-reducing the tax break for employer-provided health insurance,
-capping Medicare growth beginning FY 2013,
-tightening eligibility for Social Security disability benefits,
-indexing Social Security benefits to inflation as opposed to wages,

Wow, those are all terrible ideas.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

reducing or eliminating the tax break for employer health insurance would make sense as part of a health reform like Wyden-Bennett that moves away from people being dependent on their employers for health insurance.  Under PPACA "Obamacare" it doesn't make sense, since it would work at cross purposes with employer mandates and result in higher labor costs and thus un/under-employment.

[Frodo]

LOL -it's so easy to criticise.  What do you all propose, then, to reform the entitlement programs to shore them up so they don't bankrupt us?  And suggest something you know that congressional Republicans can agree to.  

[Franzl]

Medical malpractice reform is something I would give them. It's actually a good idea and when Republicans actually offer one...

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Medical malpractice reform is something I would give them. It's actually a good idea and when Republicans actually offer one...

Yeah... the Republicans, not you, are the one's acting in bad faith.

[Franzl]

Medical malpractice reform is something I would give them. It's actually a good idea and when Republicans actually offer one...

Yeah... the Republicans, not you, are the one's acting in bad faith.

Isn't that acting in good faith? Supporting a policy because it's actually a good policy?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Medical malpractice reform is something I would give them. It's actually a good idea and when Republicans actually offer one...

Yeah... the Republicans, not you, are the one's acting in bad faith.

Isn't that acting in good faith? Supporting a policy because it's actually a good policy?

Your characterization of the GOP as hardly ever offering good ideas is a tad hackish.

[Franzl]

Medical malpractice reform is something I would give them. It's actually a good idea and when Republicans actually offer one...

Yeah... the Republicans, not you, are the one's acting in bad faith.

Isn't that acting in good faith? Supporting a policy because it's actually a good policy?

Your characterization of the GOP as hardly ever offering good ideas is a tad hackish.

Well most of the GOP's proposals regarding deficit reduction are beyond absurd. Mitt Romney was to balance the budget through a combination of lowering taxes and increasing military spending, and apparently most Republicans didn't seem to notice or care about this small detail.

So yes, when something actually worthwhile comes from the GOP on this issue, one should take it and factor it into a deal. Preferably sooner rather than later before the nutters primary Coburn and co. for "surrendering".