Greece General Discussion

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's more possible that KKE will form a coalition with Golden Dawn than with SYRIZA.
If you watch any political talk-show then you will notice that the representatives of KKE save their harshest attacks not for the government which practices austerity but for SYRIZA.

[Landslide Lyndon]

This might be useful if you want to understand the conundrum we're in as a country.

http://www.parapolitiki.com/2014/04/attaining-recovery-abandoning-democracy.html#sthash.Pc0s9mXi.gbpl

Attaining recovery, abandoning democracy

...

 In the name of some obscure made-in-Greece concept of “Europe” and the country’s future place in it, Greece is being ruled by a government which doesn't exactly behave in a very Εuropean way, meaning the very core of Εuropean values, such as the Εuropean acquis of the Rule of Law and Good Governance. The Greek government has been repeatedly disrespectful towards the Constitution and frequently tries to scare the people off for short-term political gain. In the name of stability, the Troika is being portrayed as the ultimate enemy, invented as such by the Greek political system in order to just make sure that Greece will not change so much that it no longer needs its old political bureaucracy.

Nowadays, more than fiscal recovery, a breath of fresh air is very much needed in the Greek political system, far away from the politicians of the past, most of them being evidently prone to corruption and clientelism. Greece should be rescued in a real European way, not in a dangerous post-soviet style of governing, which could only lead to the restoration of the old or the creation of a new system of oligarchs in the country, fated to fail, once again, in the not so distant future.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It will be so... amusing... if the government remains in power due to defections from Golden Dawn.

Even if it happens, the political cost will be immense. Golden Dawn is viewed now by the vast majority of voters as a criminal organization and nobody in their right mind wants to be associated even in a tangential way with them.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Days ago, Jean-Claude Juncker warned Greeks of "major problems" if they vote in the "wrong" way. Pierre Moscovici avoided an explicit endorsement, but praised the "impressive" strides made by the government.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/12/us-greece-eurozone-juncker-idUSKBN0JQ16E20141212

These statements by European officials are very counterproductive. They just reinforce people's perception that our current government are tools of the EU and give credence to SYRIZA's demagoguery that Europe's conservative governments are trying to scare us in order to help their ideological brethren of ND. 

[Landslide Lyndon]

Days ago, Jean-Claude Juncker warned Greeks of "major problems" if they vote in the "wrong" way. Pierre Moscovici avoided an explicit endorsement, but praised the "impressive" strides made by the government.

Good grief, why is the EU establishment so bone-headed?

Of course they are. How do you think we got into that mess.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Does anyone know whether it is possible to nominate new candidates after the first round?

Of course. You can field a different candidate at every round if you wish so.

[Landslide Lyndon]

!!!

Breaking news:

ANEL backbencher Pavlos Chaikalos announced on a Greek morning TV show that someone repeatedly offered him bribes to vote for Dimas and that he recorded one of the attempts and has already testified to prosecutors about it. He was allegedly offered €700,000 in cash, €2 or €3 million in professional contracts, and the full settlement of his current bank loans. The TV host said he was aware of another MP who had privately made similar allegations.

Don't twist your panties in a knot B.K.
Chaikalis is a well-known comedian and real-life buffoon who makes Pepe Grillo look like the second coming of Winston Churchill. I'll be extremely surprised is this whole affair produces even a whiff of serious evidence.  

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's over. Get ready for January 25 or February 1.

[Landslide Lyndon]

And it is official.. 121 against.

168-132 the final result.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Well, I predict ND will win again. They have been gaining steadily and when it comes down to the wire a lot of people will be scared. But it will be fun to watch for us outsiders.

Well, don't take greek polls at face value. SYRIZA will win handily this time but will fall short of a majority of seats.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Landslide Lyndon, I am curious, which party are you planning to vote for?
 

I don't know yet. They are all horrible.
If Papandreou goes ahead and forms his own party then I will probably vote for it.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Well, I predict ND will win again. They have been gaining steadily and when it comes down to the wire a lot of people will be scared. But it will be fun to watch for us outsiders.

Well, don't take greek polls at face value. SYRIZA will win handily this time but will fall short of a majority of seats.

In Austria, voters like to punish the party that calls/was responsible for snap elections.

In this case, SYRIZA (and some others) are virtually the ones who made the new election happen.

Are Greek voters different on this issue ? Lifting the party that called for snap elections to an election win ?

Well, supposedly the people didn't want snap elections. But the government and Samaras are so unpopular that it will take a major miracle for them to avoid being defeated at the polls.

Frankly the voters have become extremely cynical. They don't expect that a SYRIZA administration will change anything meaningfully to the better. They are also well aware of the dangers if they try to antagonize the EU leadership and Germany.
But the majority has adopted a "Let me die with the Philistines" attitude and will probably cheer on if we take down the Eurozone with us.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I couldn't agree more: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-29/how-to-save-greece-now

Yeah, good luck selling that to the Germans.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Tsipras appointed as his External Affairs Minister a well-known Putin admirer with ties to the infamous Aleksandr Dugin.
Splendid.

[Landslide Lyndon]

http://www.parapolitiki.com/2015/01/new-greek-foreign-ministers-awkward.html

Professor Nikos Kotzias was nominated as the new Foreign Minister of Greece in the Cabinet of Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and he has already received severe criticism, for what is politely described by The Economist as "cordial relations" with the religious-nationalist segment of the Russian elite.

After a rather moderate career as an expert-diplomat in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Kotzias emerged as a prominent figure in the greek public sphere over the last years, when he supported some of the most populist explanations of the greek crisis.

In Kotzias' worldview, modern Germany should be blamed almost for everything. In fact, Kotzias regards the Eurozone crisis just as a Berlin-motivated plan to transform countries like Greece into modern German protectorates. The title of his last book is more than clear: Greece, a Debt Colony – European Empire and German primacy.

The problem in Kotzias' case is that he has crossed the line more than once and has pointed out some analogies between Nazi Germany and modern Germany of Angela Merkel. This has offered him some recognition among far-right parties and opinion-makers in Greece.

Here are some of his quotes:

-Germany believes that she found some free space to march in the Middle East and control Cyprus, the 'unsinkable aircraft carrier', geo-economically. To set foot in where Hitlerism failed to reach. (Epikaira Magazine, 18 April 2013)

-Germans want to pop up in the Middle East, a place that they failed to conquer under the guidance of (General) Romel. (Epikaira Magazine, 26 April 2013)

-Nowadays, Germany doesn't display biological racism, as it did during 19th century and in some part of the 20th century. However, Germany spreads financial racism and nationalism. (Interview in Eleytherotypia, 19 April 2014)

-Germany, in order to play its new role, which is desired by its own dominant forces, continuously reconsiders its history, aiming -among other things- to get rid of its responsibility for crimes it committed in the 20th century. (Personal Blog, 1 March 2014)

[Landslide Lyndon]

-Nowadays, Germany doesn't display biological racism, as it did during 19th century and in some part of the 20th century. However, Germany spreads financial racism and nationalism.

I have heard many ludicrous attempts to use the term racism where it doesn't belong, but "financial racism" is a new one..

I would expect Nikos Kotzias to be more of an ANEL pick. Has he any left wing credentials? Or did they chose him to accomodate ANEL?

He was a close adviser to George Papandreou but he left PASOK when Papandreou refused to consider him as Foreign Minister in 2009.

[Landslide Lyndon]

What if...they really believe their weird strategy can be successful? I know everybody's always thinking that at some point Syriza will come around but these guys have no experience of being in government. Maybe they really are drinking the Kool Aid.

Then the Greek people will get what they voted for.

[Landslide Lyndon]

So Greece swept in an inexperienced party with unseemly cultural-liberal tendencies, which then formed government with a party with very unseemly cultural-ultraconservative tendencies, for, essentially, nothing? Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful.

Well, we can safely say that Tsipras has vindicated his staunchest critics. He personally and his party seem totally unprepared to govern, despite the fact that it was a given they would be our next government for months now. The choice of an inexperienced narcissist like Varoufakis as our Finance Minister is just his most glaring mistake.

Also, the fact that Tsipras chose for President the right-hand man of Karamanlis, the minister responsible for our bloated public sector and the December 2008 riots, generated quite the backlash, even from right-wingers who consider the 2004-09 government responsible for our current predicament.  

[Landslide Lyndon]

A bank run is underway. The government has imposed a bank holiday until July 7 and capital controls (60 euro withdrawal per day).

Massive queues have been formed at ATM, gas stations and yesterday at super markets.
Here are some photos.



Kozani



Larissa



Aegaleo, a western suburb of Athens.

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's pretty clear one of 3 things has to happen.

1. The banks compromise some
2. Greece declares bankruptcy
3. Greece exits the euro

What the heck is 1 supposed to mean?

[Landslide Lyndon]

It's pretty clear one of 3 things has to happen.

1. The banks compromise some
2. Greece declares bankruptcy
3. Greece exits the euro

What the heck is 1 supposed to mean?

Probably something like the GREEDY BANKERS submit to the RADICAL DEMOCRATIC WILL of the PLUCKY GREEK PEOPLE.

The only problem of course is that in our case the greek banks are the victims of Tsipras's recklessness and brinkmanship.
 

[Landslide Lyndon]

Tsipras wants a snap election as soon as agreement is reached on the third bailout. Mulling either Sept. 13 or 20.

This seems to originate from German media bureau MNI citing an anonymous source.

The ND caretaker leader wants new leader elected by a primary on August 30. Will announce the procedure on Friday - speculation Samaras might try a comeback..

http://www.ekathimerini.com/199816/article/ekathimerini/news/meimarakis-set-to-propose-election-of-new-nd-chief

Says who? Samaras is out for good and won't be missed by anyone.

Tsipras wants a snap election as soon as agreement is reached on the third bailout. Mulling either Sept. 13 or 20.

Doubtful. The Troika will probably dissuade Tsipras from that and tell him to wait till October, after the first assessment of how the program goes.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Oh hey Lyndon, thought you'd vanished, or got sent to a gulag or something. How's your area of Greece holding up?

I wish I could just vanish. These two weeks, from the announcement of the referendum to the voting of the first austerity package, were a living hell for me and everyone else who wants our country to stay in the EU and doesn't want it to become Hoxha's Albania.
There were days when I was literally paralyzed with fear.  

[Landslide Lyndon]

Looking at the recent polls, at the very least I'm glad the Greek people have yet to lose their sanity, based on the GD/ANEL/KKE numbers.

I, actually, quite admire the Greeks. They are dealing with the situation better than I would have expected.

I am surprised that the Golden Dawn hasn't picked up more support than they have. If this were happening in a country with self respect, like Germany or the US, they would be at least up in the 20s by this point, and would be taken seriously like the National Front in France and like Donald Trump in the US.

Maybe the fact that they are unapologetic neo-Nazis and the fact that their leadership is under trial for being a criminal organization that resorted to blackmail and murder has something to do with their limited success.

[Landslide Lyndon]

That's old news, more than a week old.

Also, we are talking about two separate plans. The first and more outlandish about the seizing of the National Mint and the arrest of the governor of the Bank of Greece was the Plan B of Left Platform, Tsipras's biggest block of internal opposition in SYRIZA, in case there was no agreement and the ECB stopped providing liquidity to our banks.
It was widely ridiculed by everybody and just goes to show how out of touch all these Marxist fractions in SYRIZA are.

But the other scoop about our government asking Putin for a loan seems to be far more serious.
In that case the plan was that if the negotiations with the troika broke down then Tsipras would use that development as an excuse to declare a return to national currency.
Then he would ask Russia for a 10 billion dollars loan and use that cash as currency reserve to ensure a smooth transition from Euro to drachma. That plan was going forward perfectly until the night of the referendum when Moscow said to Athens that a bilateral loan was out of the question.
That's the reason, supposedly, why Tsipras, despite the resounding victory of No, rushed to make an extremely conciliatory and pro-European statement, because he understood that he was facing the prospect of bankruptcy and Grexit without safety net.
As of now the government has neither confirmed, nor denied that report and to be honest I tend to believe it.