Hasidic leader found guilty of molesting teenage girl

[they don't love you like i love you]

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http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/satmar-leader-weberman-guilty-molesting-girl-article-1.1217092

OMG ANTI-SEMITIC JURY!!!!!111!!! [/NY Jew]

In all seriousness though this is quite frightening because with the way Hasidic culture works it could easily happen quite often and not get reported or found out. Child protective services needs to be keeping a close eye on these people just like with the FLDS.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

In all seriousness though this is quite frightening because with the way Hasidic culture works it could easily happen quite often and not get reported or found out.

Yes, that's a major problem. But if you think mainstream Western culture is any better, then google the name 'Jimmy Savile'.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

In all seriousness though this is quite frightening because with the way Hasidic culture works it could easily happen quite often and not get reported or found out.

Yes, that's a major problem. But if you think mainstream Western culture is any better, then google the name 'Jimmy Savile'.

Or "The Roman Catholic church".

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

There's no reason to implicate an entire religious tradition over this, is there?

[Beet]

Here's where the parallels with mainstream Western culture the RCC cease:

"The case also offered a glimpse of the Satmar community’s shadowy efforts to enforce rigid codes of behavior — particularly for young girls — by allowing so-called modesty committees to intimidate girls for wearing revealing clothing or using cellphones, and requiring parents to send children judged to be breaking rules to religious counselors, many of whom are not licensed and charge high fees."

"Prosecution of sexual abuse allegations in the ultra-Orthodox community has been hampered in the past by the intimidation of witnesses. In this case, Mr. Hynes’s office brought charges against four men for allegedly trying to interfere with the case, through bribery and threats. Then, during the trial, four other men were charged with criminal contempt in the second degree for taking cellphone pictures of the victim, in violation of court rules. And although supporters of accused abusers often dominated the galleries at previous trials of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men, on many days at this trial, supporters of the accuser and advocates for abuse victims were in the majority."

"Hundreds turned up for a fund-raiser in Mr. Weberman’s support this year, and even with a guilty verdict, she said, she does not expect many to change their minds."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/nyregion/hasidic-man-found-guilty-of-sexual-abuse.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0&smid=tw-share

As far as I know also, the RCC doesn't tell women to sit at the back of the bus. The one question I have now is, how many members of the jury were Satmars?

[CountryRoads]

BRTD,  you are a tool. I don't know how ANYONE can take you seriously.

No other way to say it. You are comparing Hasidic Jews to FLDS? Such a tolerant liberal! This isn't the first time I've seen you in your posts bashing other religions.


Get a grip on reality.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Here's where the parallels with mainstream Western culture the RCC cease

Well, not really. Social control comes in different forms and there's absolutely no doubt that victims of abuse (sexual and otherwise) in thoroughly mainstream Western settings have been systematically silenced over the decades (just look up any care home scandal; there are plenty to choose from). Fundamentally, this sort of thing is awful, but we don't exactly occupy any kind of moral high ground on this issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

[minionofmidas]

People will do disgusting stuff to each other when they can get away with it. Not all of us, but a lot of us. *shrugs*


Care home etc scandals are a special case that is particularly comparable to the situation here, yeah.
Especially since one of the main reasons teenage girls used to get sent to these kind of places was promiscuity/prostitution... (though the Sathmars' benchmark of what makes sexually deviant behavior in a 12 year old was clearly a lot lower).
Somehow, I can see the appeal of a career choice that puts very young postpubescent girls that are already "corrupted" under your complete control if you're into that sort of thing. If you catch my drift.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

My mom once said that when she was a kid growing up in Jersey, her and some other friends would throw pennies at Hasidic Jews who passed by.

[DC Al Fine]

There's no reason to implicate an entire religious tradition over this, is there?

[Oakvale]

Reminds me of those similar Amish scandals you hear about from time to time.

[Link]

In all seriousness though this is quite frightening because with the way Hasidic culture works it could easily happen quite often and not get reported or found out.

Yes, that's a major problem. But if you think mainstream Western culture is any better, then google the name 'Jimmy Savile'.

I believe the "American" English spelling is Jerry Sandusky.  Don't want people to wonder who you are talking about.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Reminds me of those similar Amish scandals you hear about from time to time.

The story has a streak of Jim Jones in it, too. If it is what the victim says it is, this may be a cult.

[memphis]

There's no reason to implicate an entire religious tradition over this, is there?

As much as I love to hate religion, I'm with you here. It's impossible for a large organization to prevent every abusive problem. There's certainly a need for due diligence in prevention and zero tolerance for cover-ups, but what else can you do beyond constantly seeking to improve those systems? Just as true for schools, police departments etc as for religions. Even religions, the most self-righteous organizations, do not claim to have the power make people perfect. As for any distinction between "cults" and "religions",

[they don't love you like i love you]

Here's the biggest difference: If you want to quit being Catholic it's not a big deal, few if any people you know will care and it makes no serious change to your lifestyle. If you want to quit being a Hasid that's not quite as simple. These type of people have way more power and ability to get away with things than Catholic priests do. But ignoring that that's the real reason to "implicate an entire religious tradition" over this, these people use brutal tactics to keep folks in line and try to enforce their own style of law in their area like Sharia. Read the comments (mostly by people in Brooklyn.) There's a reason why people in Brooklyn in general including normal Jews aren't very fond of Hasids.

[memphis]

Here's the biggest difference: If you want to quit being Catholic it's not a big deal

You're sailing perilously close to the deluge.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Here's the biggest difference: If you want to quit being Catholic it's not a big deal

You're sailing perilously close to the deluge.

1-in-3 Americans raised Catholic have left the church. People do it all the time. Probably just about everyone knows at least one ex-Catholic.

It's certainly not comparable to this: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/hasidic-jew-runs-orthodox-roots-arranged-marriage-child/story?id=15540395

Someone might want to explain how the FLDS comparison is not warranted after that story above.

[they don't love you like i love you]

BTW the reason this story is kind of notable is it marks a rare time the Brooklyn DA's office actually took action on such a case and didn't just ignore it or expect the shromrim to handle things, something the DA has received massive criticism for. Why did the Brooklyn DA act this way in the past? Well it's well known these communities will vote >90% in favor of whoever the lead rabbi endorses, so pissing them off would have some electoral consequences...

If you look a bit deeper into the case you'll find some other interesting things: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/nyregion/4-ultra-orthodox-men-charged-with-trying-to-silence-accuser-in-abuse-case.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

And remember that while all sorts of coverups occur in mainstream society and other religions, most don't have a concept similar to mesirah which is a complete prohibition on turning over another Jew into secular authorities (or more accurately, turning in a Hasid to non-Hasidic authorities, these people don't consider the vast majority of Jews to be legitimate Jews after all and here's what a mainstream rabbi has to say about it, obviously not supportive.)

[MaxQue]

Sure, it's much better to pretend to be tolerant than to accept there is a lot of problems with Hasidics.

Their lifestyle isn't compatible with Western laws and standards.

[DC Al Fine]

Sure, it's much better to pretend to be tolerant than to accept there is a lot of problems with Hasidics.

Their lifestyle isn't compatible with Western laws and standards.

Could you elaborate on that please?

[MaxQue]

Sure, it's much better to pretend to be tolerant than to accept there is a lot of problems with Hasidics.

Their lifestyle isn't compatible with Western laws and standards.

Could you elaborate on that please?

Their schools are illegal in Quebec and they refuse to respect the programs.
They have 5 days of Torah studying and one day of English and Maths. No science
That's obviously a way of dumbing down kids to keep them under control.

That is one example of how their backwards ways are incompatible with the freedoms and liberty of Western World.

[DC Al Fine]

Sure, it's much better to pretend to be tolerant than to accept there is a lot of problems with Hasidics.

Their lifestyle isn't compatible with Western laws and standards.

Could you elaborate on that please?

Their schools are illegal in Quebec and they refuse to respect the programs.
They have 5 days of Torah studying and one day of English and Maths. No science
That's obviously a way of dumbing down kids to keep them under control.

That is one example of how their backwards ways are incompatible with the freedoms and liberty of Western World.

You lost me on the last part. They are backward, so we have to ban their schools and force them to educate their children the way we want?.... in the name of freedom & liberty?

I don't follow.

[© tweed]

lol @ "the striking young woman"

[bedstuy]

I'm fine with freedom of religion.  But, freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom to create your own laws or act like you own the people who were born into your sect.  Obviously, we want to respect any individual choosing to adopt this lifestyle.  That changes when religion leaders demand the ability to control other people.

Just from personal experience, the Hasidim in my part of Brooklyn don't tend to show a lot of respect for the freedom of non-Hasidic people.  They have their own vigilante police, they violate housing laws constantly, they go nuts about women riding bicycles or dressing provocatively and they make inflammatory anti-Israel statements.

[Gustaf]

Here's where the parallels with mainstream Western culture the RCC cease

Well, not really. Social control comes in different forms and there's absolutely no doubt that victims of abuse (sexual and otherwise) in thoroughly mainstream Western settings have been systematically silenced over the decades (just look up any care home scandal; there are plenty to choose from). Fundamentally, this sort of thing is awful, but we don't exactly occupy any kind of moral high ground on this issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.

Could one not argue that a culture which generally is less hierarchal and preaches less respect for authority and more freedom of the individual should be less likely to display things like this?

Not that I'm saying that all Western culture is like that in a monolithic fashion, but still. Purely anecdotally that's my impression, at least.