Shooting at CT elementary school leaves at least 27 dead, 18 of them children (user search)
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  Shooting at CT elementary school leaves at least 27 dead, 18 of them children (search mode)
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Author Topic: Shooting at CT elementary school leaves at least 27 dead, 18 of them children  (Read 28141 times)
Vosem
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Posts: 15,634
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

« on: December 14, 2012, 04:35:27 PM »

Very, very sad. My condolences to the family members of the victims.

A rather lively but one-sided debate on gun rights took place in math class.
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Vosem
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*****
Posts: 15,634
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 09:01:11 PM »

How long before the US works out that the current gun laws (or lack thereof) aren't actually working?

This will occur, at the very earliest, when my generation will be elderly. Not before. So, many decades, in other words.
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Vosem
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*****
Posts: 15,634
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 12:24:08 PM »

What's the threshold in terms of deaths until something is really done on gun control?
100? 200?

As I have already noted, when my generation is elderly something could happen. Doubtful on the whole though -- the trend on this issue is both for less public support for gun control and for less gun control.
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Vosem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,634
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 07:09:34 PM »

Why do people act like it would be so easy to get an illegal gun if the most deadly guns were illegal?  I agree it would be possible for years, until the police eventually confiscate them all, but I definitely don't think it would be easy.  I think most people don't really have any idea where to find an illegal gun...

It's not at all difficult to acquire marijuana despite decades of prohibition.

Can you grow guns in your closet?

It is not very difficult at all to make guns out of common household objects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm). You can find guides online on how they are made. Generally they are less reliable than professional weapons (and frequently must be loaded one-shot-at-a-time), but on the other hand it's easy to disguise them as other objects, especially flashlights.

The more significant issue is that, like marijuana, the government is losing a large source of taxable revenue; that the government, by banning it would make the quality worse and the object more dangerous to the user; that criminal groups would gain power by successfully selling guns; and that the government really couldn't ban it anyway, because of cultural norms (which doesn't really apply to marijuana; there aren't broad swathes of the country where simply due to the composition of the population anti-marijuana laws go unenforced, but such an area would exist for anti-gun laws).

If gun-trade-gangs are anywhere near as successful as, say, drug dealers, it wouldn't even be that hard to find a professionally made weapon (especially considering way more people want guns than drugs) -- certainly if you're persistent enough and are surrounded by like-minded people, even in very urban areas it can't be that hard to find a friend of a friend.

It is impossible to effectively ban guns in the US, and were such laws to be enacted the effects would largely be negative ones. It is possible in theory to enact stricter gun control laws than exist today, but in practice that's also impossible because (to cite an example) a smaller percentage of the population want stronger gun control laws than voted for McCain (who is, I shall remind you, considered to have lost 'in a landslide').
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Vosem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,634
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 11:57:26 PM »

And another thought is the idea of Herostratus -- many shooters are deprived of attention and do it in order to gain fame (like Herostratus, way back in the day). It's struck me how several school shootings have been foiled in just the few days after this event, but prior to it there hadn't been a school shooting for years. If they received less media attention, attention-seekers and suggestive people wouldn't end up going on shooting sprees -- leaving only the truly mentally ill and people with political motivations (ie, terrorists).

I've already outlined the problems with increased gun control (as I see them), but I don't think expanding mental health care is the solution, either. Trying to seek out people who are proficient at hiding their problems would result in many, many false positives, whose lives could then be completely ruined at a diagnosis. It's an extremely imprecise science. (Also, being descended from Soviet immigrants, I have a bit of an irrational tendency to correlate "mentally ill" with "political dissident" -- it has a very negative connotation to me). That said, in the case mentioned above, it's a travesty that people like Michael are left to relatives instead of professionals. But we can't allow ourselves to go overboard with this.
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