So why do these shootings happen so often in the United States?
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  So why do these shootings happen so often in the United States?
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Poll
Question: Which is it?
#1
Insufficient regulation of guns
 
#2
Mental health issues
 
#3
a combination of both
 
#4
neither
 
#5
other
 
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Author Topic: So why do these shootings happen so often in the United States?  (Read 4973 times)
Franzl
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« on: December 17, 2012, 10:08:37 AM »

Why do so many shootings happen in America? If you agree with Option 1, then you have a clear case: There are simply so many guns in America, present in like half the households. If you, however, believe "mental health problems" are primarily at fault, why do these massacres not happen at comparable rates throughout the world?

Please explain.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2012, 10:56:14 AM »

No one knows.....if they did we could stop it.
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Franzl
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 11:58:04 AM »

No one knows.....if they did we could stop it.

I'm as strongly in favor of gun control as one can be, of course, but if it's purely a matter of gun control, you'd think places like Switzerland would also have monthly massacres.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 12:05:24 PM »

Clearly they are God's punishment for electing a Muslim Socialist twice.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 02:31:46 PM »

Mental health is likely the biggest factor. This may also be combined with some other aspect of our nation's culture(s) that is harder to pinpoint. Unfortunately it's not clear what needs to be done about it.
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opebo
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 02:48:34 PM »

Individualism.
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Donerail
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 03:35:56 PM »

I'll go with the media that publicizes these people and makes them household names.
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Franzl
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 03:37:20 PM »

I'll go with the media that publicizes these people and makes them household names.

That's true everywhere, though. Everyone in Norway (and pretty much everywhere, I imagine) knows the name Breivik.
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Roemerista
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« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2012, 03:58:41 PM »

Demographically speaking, homogeneous countries such as the Nordic countries and places like Japan face a lower homicide rate in general. As we are quite diverse, in all categories of the word,  it isn't surprising that we have a higher homicide rate than those countries to which we like to compare ourselves.
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FloridaRepublican
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« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2012, 04:03:30 PM »

Define "often."
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 04:04:15 PM »

The question in my mind is why these mass shootings are increasing in frequency in the US, even as the number of other shootings is going down. 
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Franzl
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 04:09:40 PM »

Demographically speaking, homogeneous countries such as the Nordic countries and places like Japan face a lower homicide rate in general. As we are quite diverse, in all categories of the word,  it isn't surprising that we have a higher homicide rate than those countries to which we like to compare ourselves.

Large portions of Western Europe are anything but homogeneous. The Nordic countries actually tend to have slightly higher murder rates than a good deal of the continent.


As in: a lot more frequently (even in relation to the population) than in any other industrialized country.

The question in my mind is why these mass shootings are increasing in frequency in the US, even as the number of other shootings is going down.  

This I think can be explained. Growing social inequality (particuarly in the United States), increased pressure through more competitive labor markets, globalization....etc.

The effects of neoliberalism (did I really say that?).

Or, I dunno, it might just be coincidence.
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Tender Branson
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« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 04:12:21 PM »
« Edited: December 17, 2012, 04:16:59 PM by Tender Branson »

There have been 3 school shootings in Austria so far:

1991 in Lower Austria, when a student shot the principal of his school (only wounded, not killed) and then killed himself
1997 in Lower Austria, when a student shot dead a teacher after he tried to rape a girl
2005 in Vienna, when a student stabbed a girl to death

In general though, this is very rare and Austria has only a murder rate of 0.5 per 100.000, compared with a 10-times higher rate in the US.
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AkSaber
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 08:27:56 PM »

I would say it's our fascination and enjoyment with violence.

Look at the character of our people. We enjoy violent entertainment. Movies which horrify, say people in Europe, are revelled here. And let's face it, most people in this country enjoy war. They like the thought of kicking someone's ass for some perceived wrongdoing. There's no more settling disputes over discussion. Like, "If you don't agree with us, we'll kill you" sort of thing.

We're all exposed to violence, from a very young age. Most of us just aren't appalled by it anymore.
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patrick1
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 08:48:17 PM »


Oddly, I like this answer. As a social value, it can bring out the best and worst of our nature. There are millions of invisible men like this roaming around. Marginalized, forgotten people. The ones who are cast into the loser pool of a success based culture.  Many have severe mental illnesses.  We just put our head down and hope they won't snap one day. Hope that they will remain the unpleasant background noise to our daily routines.

It is a lesson one learns early on the subways. Keep you head down, mind your business, no eye contact. The problems happen when everyone does ignores the problems and puts their collective heads down. One day you may get shoved in front of an oncoming train. Maybe the weird kid you had home room with decides to take some people down with him.
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bedstuy
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« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 10:03:25 PM »

I'm sure it's a complicated, multivariate answer.

But, I wonder whether the United States and the first world in general is seeing a sort of epidemic in congenital mental illness.  Schizophrenia and autism have been tied recently to the age of the father.  Perhaps, the trend towards older parents is leading to greater numbers of people with a genetic predisposition towards this sort of activity. 
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2012, 10:26:01 PM »

Lax gun laws, poor healthcare system and mental healthcare specifically, and a culture that glorifies guns. All three have to be addressed in equal measure.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2012, 10:42:22 PM »

An out of date fixation with guns and a paranoia about tyranny, too little support for people with mental health issues and then allowing people access to lethal weapons without cause or reasonable limitations... because lord knows America is safer because it's armed to the teeth.
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Negusa Nagast 🚀
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« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2012, 11:06:48 PM »

Mental health issues and insufficient regulation. Said lack of regulation needs to address these mental health issues.
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Alcon
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« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2012, 11:07:51 PM »

The U.S. also has a higher rate of non-gun murders than many Westernized countries have of murders, period.
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« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2012, 03:09:08 AM »

I would say it's our fascination and enjoyment with violence.

Look at the character of our people. We enjoy violent entertainment. Movies which horrify, say people in Europe, are revelled here. And let's face it, most people in this country enjoy war. They like the thought of kicking someone's ass for some perceived wrongdoing. There's no more settling disputes over discussion. Like, "If you don't agree with us, we'll kill you" sort of thing.

We're all exposed to violence, from a very young age. Most of us just aren't appalled by it anymore.

This seems like the most likely answer.
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Antonio the Sixth
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« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2012, 04:51:42 AM »

This I think can be explained. Growing social inequality (particuarly in the United States), increased pressure through more competitive labor markets, globalization....etc.

The effects of neoliberalism (did I really say that?).

ZOMGZ FRANZL IS TURNING SOCIALIST ZOMGZ!!! Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Franzl
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« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2012, 08:32:51 AM »

Look at the character of our people. We enjoy violent entertainment. Movies which horrify, say people in Europe, are revelled here.

The same movies are shown in theaters and on TV here. Why have they not motivated more people to go on shooting sprees?
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DemPGH
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« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2012, 12:44:04 PM »

I support the right of individuals to own guns, but I support significantly more gun control than what exists in the USA. That said, gun control alone will not fix this problem, and so I'm thinking that the problem might be a mix of 1) American social factors that might present violence as a more acceptable alternative to solving problems or expressing dissatisfaction with the status quo (personal or economic or whatever) than perhaps elsewhere combined with 2) psychological issues. I'm wondering if you wouldn't find those two factors to be at the root of the vast majority or all of these shootings. But a lot of people wish they knew!
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Chuck Hagel 08
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« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2012, 07:34:23 PM »

Look at the character of our people. We enjoy violent entertainment. Movies which horrify, say people in Europe, are revelled here.

The same movies are shown in theaters and on TV here. Why have they not motivated more people to go on shooting sprees?

Until the Newtown horror, the three worst K–12 school shootings ever had taken place in either Britain or Germany.
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