Any other Downton Abbey fans?

[memphis]

NO SPOILERS! SEASON 3 HAS NOT YET AIRED IN THE STATES.
I can admit it. Top notch soap opera. Anybody else?

[Supersonic]

Yup, an admitted fan here!

Series 3 was really good, despite its detractors.

[Leftbehind]

Awful. Ended up seeing most of the Christmas special: farcical to the point of being funny. You can tell it's written by a Tory toff.

[Smid]

I love it. Season 3 isn't out here yet, either, but loved the first two.

[Supersonic]

Awful. Ended up seeing most of the Christmas special: farcical to the point of being funny. You can tell it's written by a Tory toff.

Calm down dear.

[Simfan34]

Awful. Ended up seeing most of the Christmas special: farcical to the point of being funny. You can tell it's written by a Tory toff.

This reminds me of Quinlan Terry's comment that he enjoys designing houses for American clients as they just see his Georgian houses as nice houses. In Britain there's always a big huff about "values" and "living in the past" and all sorts of political qualms. It seems the same applies to Downton Abbey. I like the show, I ended up watching the third season online unaware that it had not aired in the U.S.

But I imagine the show will be highly unpopular amongst the forum's members for the same reason some don't like neo-Georgian houses.

[memphis]

It's an extremely conservative representation of the period. The upper class people are all fairly decent, sharp tongues notwithstanding. And the liberal rabble are dangerous criminals. But whatevs. It's still a fun show. Full of snarky comments and beautiful costumes and scenery.

[tmthforu94]

I'm a fan - I won't look in this thread though after this post, in fear someone spoils Season 3 for me.

[Simfan34]

Mr. Bates is ki-

-ssed by Anna.

[freefair]

Awful. Ended up seeing most of the Christmas special: farcical to the point of being funny. You can tell it's written by a Tory toff.

Its a show that everyone from liberal-elitist Guardian readers in Hampstead, to working class Mirror reading socialists in Leeds, to Essex rags to riches Sun reading types, to Shire county Torygraph reading Aristocrats, seems to love. That's the first time I've heard the show put down based on the political affiliations of it's writer, who was AWARDED a peerage. He didn't inherit it.
There is almost no political element to the show's fanhood, though obviously much of the story is political, its never in a way most viewers would find devicive.

[afleitch]

I like a bit of Thomas Barrow, but I just don't have the time to commit to watching the show.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It functions as a sort of pension scheme for character actors who have been in infinitely better things, I suppose (especially as they're mostly just phoning in. Jim Carter, to go for the extreme example, is one of the best television actors of his generation, but you'd never think it from this programme). I can't think of anything else to say about it that isn't abusive.

Though I suppose the writing must be mentioned. Because it is really quite specially awful.

[angus]

Anybody else?

I watched that show regularly for a long time.  I don't usually get into soap operas, but it's actually fairly interesting.  The characters are well-developed.  I stumbled onto it one night, musta been early in the show's development.  Some really stuffy folks were sitting around and moping over the bad news that some relatives had been killed on the Titanic.  I had assumed it was yet another Titanic documentary, but with vignettes, so I watched.  Turned out it was a soap opera.  Of course, I had to tune in next week, same Bat time, same Bat Channel.  You know how those things are.  I guess I watched all that season and the next.  I even rushed back to the hotel one Sunday evening when I was in Boston on a work-related trip just to see an episode, lest I miss something important.  That was the episode when Willy got killed trying to stick himself between Matthew and some exploding German ordinance.  I'd assumed that they were going to kill Matthew off, but instead they just made him a paraplegic for a couple of episodes.  Now, he's got his hard-on back.  I guess everyone wants to know if he's going to bag his cousin.  My US sensibilities are torn between being grossed out by the incest common among English snobs and just wanting him to go ahead and do it.  After all, the sexual tension that the directors have been building up for a couple of years shouldn't be wasted.  

Now they're advertising another season.  Comes on at a weird time here.  Used to be on Sundays at 9ish in Iowa.  Here it's like Saturday at midnight or something.  Don't know if I'll watch it as often.  

[Frodo]

It functions as a sort of pension scheme for character actors who have been in infinitely better things, I suppose (especially as they're mostly just phoning in. Jim Carter, to go for the extreme example, is one of the best television actors of his generation, but you'd never think it from this programme). I can't think of anything else to say about it that isn't abusive.

Though I suppose the writing must be mentioned. Because it is really quite specially awful.

Not to go off topic, but what films and television programs do you actually like, if I may ask?  Which best meets your lofty standards? It's becoming increasingly evident that we have opposite opinions regarding every movie and television program that I like.  And we haven't gone into television documentaries yet...    

[Lief 🗽]

I've always found it interesting that British television seems to be a lot more political than American television (I'm thinking of this show, which while essentially a soap opera, is still one that very clearly raises political issues that no American soap opera ever would, as well as other British series, like Our Friends in the North or even comedies like Yes Minister or In the Thick of It). We don't really have anything comparable in the United States, with maybe the exception of Mad Men. And then in the Oughts we had The West Wing of course, but that's about it.

[Хahar 🤔]

It's a soap opera that seems smart because everyone has British accents.

[angus]

I've always found it interesting that British television seems to be a lot more political than American television (I'm thinking of this show, which while essentially a soap opera, is still one that very clearly raises political issues that no American soap opera ever would, as well as other British series, like Our Friends in the North or even comedies like Yes Minister or In the Thick of It). We don't really have anything comparable in the United States, with maybe the exception of Mad Men. And then in the Oughts we had The West Wing of course, but that's about it.

Jeezus.  Who in the hell would want that?  I'm not familiar with the shows you name--well, I've heard of West Wing and Yes Minister, but can't say I've set through an entire episode of either, and I don't know anything of the other shows you mention.  All I can say is that the LAST thing I want to see when I sit down to a fiction is politics.  Thankfully, there's precious little of it in Downton Abbey.  Sure, there's that Irish driver and his Lady, both of whom were fairly political--of course he snatched the Lady from her papa, but the snatching has more to do with the sort of interpersonal relationships you find in any pulp fiction than it has to do with politics--but the bulk of it doesn't seem much like politics.  Policy, maybe, and some careful conniving.  That old bitch Violet, who turns out to be the most likable character of the lot, understands how to move people around.  This isn't abject politics.  It's just about alpha mammals getting the better of the lesser members of their species, and in that sense it's no different than a Discovery Channel special about the chimps of Gombe.  These English apes may dress better, but the way the beta members of the tribe comb and bow to the alpha members isn't any different than the African apes.  I think you're reading far, far too much into the show.  That, or you're watching that blonde bimbo introduce it.  Man, she pisses off.  She made me miss one episode one night.  I tuned in at my regular time, only to find this bimbo who was in a couple of episodes of Frasier talking about women's rights and such.  I thought, "Oh, hell, they're doing some special tonight instead of my usual soap opera" so I turned the channel.  After a while I turned back and found that it was playing.  Apparently PBS had hired her to "introduce" each episode.  After that I made it a point to tune in about five minutes late, so I wouldn't have to hear her blathering on about it and overanalyzing it.  You gotta stop listening to that dribble.  It's nonsense.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I've always found it interesting that British television seems to be a lot more political than American television (I'm thinking of this show, which while essentially a soap opera, is still one that very clearly raises political issues that no American soap opera ever would, as well as other British series, like Our Friends in the North or even comedies like Yes Minister or In the Thick of It). We don't really have anything comparable in the United States, with maybe the exception of Mad Men. And then in the Oughts we had The West Wing of course, but that's about it.

The dominant ideology in the high brow sections of British telly until deregulation and the marketisation of the BBC in the early 1990s was a combination of Reithianism and the socialist dream of a common culture. There was a parallel in the publishing industry, with Penguin - especially the Classics and Pelican series - and the idea of providing something good to read to ordinary people.

Anyways, TV drama actually started off with the idea of showing plays on the telly - The Wednesday Play series in the 60s for example - and these had to be socially relevant in some form or other. Think Cathy Come Home or the Nigel Barton plays. The writers - British TV drama has traditionally been dominated by writers - producers and directors involved in these early projects went on to dominate the form (and to effectively train new apprentices) until the 1990s. So when the idea of one-off plays for the telly was eventually (though not without a fight) replaced with the idea of longer series, the social content remained; an extraordinary amount of intelligent and socially aware thrillers (such as Tinker, Tailor, Solider, Spy, Edge of Darkness, and A Very British Coup) were produced in the 1970s and 1980s, along with extremely direct social works like Boys from the Blackstuff and the incredibly prodigious and diverse output of Dennis Potter, British telly's very own socialist mystic.

All of that's gone now (alas), but work produced during this 'classic' period defines what most people regard as good telly, which means that it continues to have an influence of sorts over current output. In particular it means that writers are almost expected to address social themes and relevant political issues.

[memphis]

It functions as a sort of pension scheme for character actors who have been in infinitely better things, I suppose (especially as they're mostly just phoning in. Jim Carter, to go for the extreme example, is one of the best television actors of his generation, but you'd never think it from this programme). I can't think of anything else to say about it that isn't abusive.

Though I suppose the writing must be mentioned. Because it is really quite specially awful.

Do you like anything or anybody? Get some dopamine in your neurons. And hurry.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Do you like anything or anybody?

I'm currently listening to a very good recording of Ralph Vaughan Williams's The Pilgrim's Progress and am enjoying it a great deal, so, yes.

Also, and telly-specific, if you read my long post in this thread, you'll see a lot of things that I implicitly like.

[memphis]

It's a soap opera that seems smart because everyone has British accents.

It also "seems" smart because you have to be vaguely aware that there were once things called the Titanic and the Great War and the Spanish Flu. A bit off the radar of most people who watch American soap operas.

I've always found it interesting that British television seems to be a lot more political than American television (I'm thinking of this show, which while essentially a soap opera, is still one that very clearly raises political issues that no American soap opera ever would, as well as other British series, like Our Friends in the North or even comedies like Yes Minister or In the Thick of It). We don't really have anything comparable in the United States, with maybe the exception of Mad Men. And then in the Oughts we had The West Wing of course, but that's about it.

We have politics in many American shows. They may not always hit your over the head with it anymore like Norman Lear used to do, but look at Breaking Bad. All about the failures of American healthcare and the War on Drugs. Animated shows like the Simpsons and South Park have long hid political points between fart jokes. That 70s Show was full of references to the politics of the period. 24 was full of terrorism laden politics. What American tv avoids like the plague is depiction of poverty. Even "poor" families like those on Roseanne and Married...With Children lead fairly decent lives in houses that are bigger than any I've ever lived in. The staff at Downton are likely the poorest people on American televisions since Good Times.

[Simfan34]

Do you like anything or anybody?

I'm currently listening to a very good recording of Ralph Vaughan Williams's The Pilgrim's Progress and am enjoying it a great deal, so, yes.

Also, and telly-specific, if you read my long post in this thread, you'll see a lot of things that I implicitly like.

What? Al likes something I like?

[Silent Hunter]

Personally, I think the rot set in when ITV unified.

[Leftbehind]

Awful. Ended up seeing most of the Christmas special: farcical to the point of being funny. You can tell it's written by a Tory toff.

Calm down dear.

Could say the same to you, Dave. You misunderstood - it was so crap/ridiculous it made for funny viewing.

Awful. Ended up seeing most of the Christmas special: farcical to the point of being funny. You can tell it's written by a Tory toff.

Its a show that everyone from liberal-elitist Guardian readers in Hampstead, to working class Mirror reading socialists in Leeds, to Essex rags to riches Sun reading types, to Shire county Torygraph reading Aristocrats, seems to love. That's the first time I've heard the show put down based on the political affiliations of it's writer, who was AWARDED a peerage. He didn't inherit it.
There is almost no political element to the show's fanhood, though obviously much of the story is political, its never in a way most viewers would find devicive.

As others have pointed out, it's a glorified soap: it's bound to draw in a big audience - largely the apolitical type, which are quite happy to swallow the absurd nostalgia served up. What? So people can't be toffs unless they're hereditary peers? I never argued its fans were political devotees; but how that reflects on my - or other people's - dislike for it, I don't see.

[angus]

All of that's gone now (alas), but work produced during this 'classic' period defines what most people regard as good telly, which means that it continues to have an influence of sorts over current output. In particular it means that writers are almost expected to address social themes and relevant political issues.

Actually, there was always plenty of political stuff on US television.  I had to sit through all that stuff growing up, since my parents were into that sort of stuff and since 40 years ago there weren't as many televisions and not as many channels.  For example, there were five of us:  Mama, Daddy, and three children, but only 2 televisions.  And those two televisions received between 4 and 12 channels, depending upon circumstances.  Now, there are only three of us, myself, my wife, and my son, and we have 4 televisions, and each of those televisions receives over 200 channels.  Anyway, my brother usually commanded one of the televisions, and he was into The Rifleman and Gunsmoke and such, which held little appeal, so the only other option was to watch with Mama and Daddy.  They were into deeply political television.  I had to sit through M*A*S*H, Barney Miller, All in the Family, Saturday Night Live, etc.  Plenty of political stuff on US television, despite Leif's inability to find or recognize it.  Once I became a grown-up with my own TV, I no longer have to watch any of the political stuff, and I don't. 

Of course, the best way to deal with sensitive issues is with morality plays, not with politics.  Star Trek, the original series, and to some extent The Next Generation were groundbreaking in this regard.  The decline of religious observance in society, homosexuality, interracial coupling, medical malpractice, the debate over the existence of the soul, and physician-assisted suicide were all dealt with in those programs, in subtle and clever ways. 

My suspicion is that in the US (and probably the UK), folks nowadays want shallower fare.  The world is scary enough as it is, without putting all that profound analysis on display.  For those who enjoy serious examinations of sensitive social issues, whether through the lens of politics or through morality plays, you have to seek out movies, as prime-time dramas and sitcoms are simply shallow.  I'm no expert on this as I rarely watch the prime-time garbage, but based on what I have seen, and from comments by posters here, this seems to be the case in the US and at least to some extent in the UK.  As it turns out, though, it isn't really necessary that prime-time television directors produce such programs.  At the push of a button on my remote, my addressable converter goes into address mode.  I can select from tens of thousands of titles.  I can watch sports, westerns, Chinese movies, French movies, any genre I want.  We're not so dependent upon the television studio executives any more to present morality plays or political studies.

I think the program in question has some of the morality element, and some politics, but not so much that it's distracting.  It does not seem to want to make judgments.  It merely presents a fiction, in a sometimes dramatic, sometimes amusing way.  And the character development is really amazing.  (Not as amazing as King of the Hill, but then that's a cartoon, and you can do more with cartoons.  Also, KOTH has been running for more seasons.)  Still, I find great metamorphoses occurring.  There have been great surprises.  Characters I once found vulgar and now endearing.  Characters I once found stuffy are now charming.  And some that I found likable are now wretched.  Character development is a big thing with me.  As for the costumes, I'm no expert.  I don't know whether they're well done or not.  I'll take others' word for it.  I have no idea how authentic they are, and I don't really care.  You could put Carson in Captain Picard's uniform and I'd be okay with that, so long as you don't alter his stern yet endearing avuncular character.