The Big Bad Swedish Politics & News Thread

[Silent Hunter]

And why would we have a Minister of Interior? I have never understod what one of those are actually suppouse to do.

Because you want to separate executive from judiciary powers. The Ministry of Justice is responsible for the judiciary system, drafts new legislation, especially public and criminal law, and carries out regulatory impact assessment on legislation prepared by other ministries. The Ministry of Interior controls police, prosecutors, jails, border police, fire-fighters and so on, and oversees the public sector (post classification, compensations & benefits, training, etc.).

So that's what an Interior Ministry is suppose to do! I actually had no idea.

In Scandinavian countries it is very rarely a problem that the Ministry of Justice controls both the courts and the police, though.

Yeah, because you never had home-grown fascism

Quisling?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Lots of interesting discussions going on like last night with the principles committee apparently having some heated discussions about switching out Democratic Socialism for Social Democracy in our principle program. Brings backs memories of the heavy factional infighting between the right and left during the 90s and early 2000s. Though this specific issue won't be big fight since there's a majority in favor of keeping it the way it is.

Ah, yes. Aren't factionalist drama queens just the worst?

[Franknburger]

Yeah, because you never had home-grown fascism

Quisling?

[/quote]

That's why I said "home-grown". Of course, Denmark and Norway experienced fascism under German WW II occupation, but without that occupation, fascism would most likely not have played a significant role in domestic politics. Quisling's party never gained a parliamentary seat before WW II.

[HansOslo]

Frankenburger is right.

Quislings party, Nasjonal Samling (meaning something like National Unity) was more of a sect than a political party the years before the German invasion.

 They got 1,8 % of the vote in the last general election before the war.

[Viewfromthenorth]

Even during the war, when membership of the party had very favorable implications, their number never exceeded 50 000. Quisling was probably just as delusional as a more recent fascist rat around here.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Right now I'm a few hours into the Social Democratic Youth congress, where I'm proudly representing my district as a delegate. Lots of interesting discussions going on like last night with the principles committee apparently having some heated discussions about switching out Democratic Socialism for Social Democracy in our principle program. Brings backs memories of the heavy factional infighting between the right and left during the 90s and early 2000s. Though this specific issue won't be big fight since there's a majority in favor of keeping it the way it is.

Good to hear you're having fun. Youth congresses are suppose to be.
And the most heated discussions always seem to be about the most trivial issues. At the Centre Youth Congress in May we had a several hours long debate on whether it should be mandatory to visit a farm in Elementary school between the Libertarian faction and the Farmer faction.

Though you should fire however decided the location for '13 should be Täby. I'm sure someone thought it smart to put it in Reinfeldt's home town, but it must be the most boring Suburb in the entire country. 

[The Lord Marbury]

Right now I'm a few hours into the Social Democratic Youth congress, where I'm proudly representing my district as a delegate. Lots of interesting discussions going on like last night with the principles committee apparently having some heated discussions about switching out Democratic Socialism for Social Democracy in our principle program. Brings backs memories of the heavy factional infighting between the right and left during the 90s and early 2000s. Though this specific issue won't be big fight since there's a majority in favor of keeping it the way it is.

Good to hear you're having fun. Youth congresses are suppose to be.
And the most heated discussions always seem to be about the most trivial issues. At the Centre Youth Congress in May we had a several hours long debate on whether it should be mandatory to visit a farm in Elementary school between the Libertarian faction and the Farmer faction.

Though you should fire however decided the location for '13 should be Täby. I'm sure someone thought it smart to put it in Reinfeldt's home town, but it must be the most boring Suburb in the entire country. 

Yep, though we certainly had a few heated debates about non-trivial issues such as another part of the principle program in regards to the writing about class and capitalism. The board had presented a proposal which was already a compromise between the left and rightwing factions, but Gothenburg refused to stand behind it, instead presenting a weak counterproposal founded on a faulty analysis of captalism which basically attempted to seperate the market from the capitalist system, calling the market a great engine for creativity and innovation which IMO is a definite liberal line going against everything a democratic socialist organization should stand for. And unfortunately Gothenburg's proposal passed narrowly with the right wing districts having a slight majority. But, after talking with several other delegates from rightwing districts it would actually appear that there was a majority in favor of the boards original compromise but due to the extremely strong whip within districts they were pressured into voting for the Gothenburg proposal. I myself experienced that as my district is a rightwing one and I actually had to vote in secret for the original proposal because of the strong pressure from our delegation leader to vote for Gothenburg.

It's sad that still after the left/right infighting the youth league suffered during the 90s were still locked in a state where often people place their votes not based on the merits of the presented proposal, but on which district it originates with and that districts often pressures their delegates not to vote as their hearts and minds desire but to follow the district line. This can be acceptable when it comes to an issue when the district conference has taken a clear stance and you have to respect the will of the district's members on the issue, but otherwise the practice should just stop. It's simply undemocratic.

I'm sure that CUF also suffers from some similar problems with its libertarian and farmer factions as well, though perhaps to a lesser degree what with CUF and the Centre being much smaller than SSU and SAP and much less of a big tent.

And I do agree with you in regards to Täby that it is an extremely dull and boring suburb but I have to say that it was nice to be there to show support for SSU Täby and other SSU clubs located in heavily rightwing municipalities. And of course also due to the symbolism of it being Reinfeldt's hometown. But with the congress having been held in the Stockholm area two times in a row now, I do hope we'll see it being held somewhere else next time. Personally, I think Sundsvall would be a good choice.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

You whip the delegates... at a party congress... for the Youth Organisation???!!!
I knew that SSU was really bad when it comes the factional wars, but that's not something I would have thought in my wildest anti-Social Democratic dreams. I mean, how anti-democratic can a democratic party actually get? Aren't you suppouse to be the Peoples' Movement party. How can you be that if you're not even allowing delegates to have their own opinions even on a party congresses?   
You guys really need to drop this whole civil war schtick if you want to survive in the long run. 
Good to hear you stood your ground and voted with your heart though.

We have a lot of factional battles in CUF as well, but the idea that I for example would be forced to vote for a flat tax because because my district is majority Libertarian, or that Hanna Wagenius would be forced to vote for the monarchy because her district is Farmer dominated would be absurd to us.

Anyway rant over.

Hosting the congress is lots of fun so you guys should definable try to get it to your district next year. Though why settle with Sundsvall, show them some real deep red Labour area and take them all the way home to Kramfors.  

In other news, I received my preselection ballot for the Centre Party list for the EP elections today. I will have a long night researching all the 90!! candidates.   

       

[Viewfromthenorth]

Seriously? Whipping at a youth congress? Swedes...

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Seriously? Whipping at a youth congress? Swedes...

Do not judge the rest of us for SSU. I'm as shocked as you are. 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Ah, but you shouldn't be shocked. Left youth/student politics is serious business. It's the main reason why I never got involved.

[The Lord Marbury]

You whip the delegates... at a party congress... for the Youth Organisation???!!!
I knew that SSU was really bad when it comes the factional wars, but that's not something I would have thought in my wildest anti-Social Democratic dreams. I mean, how anti-democratic can a democratic party actually get? Aren't you suppouse to be the Peoples' Movement party. How can you be that if you're not even allowing delegates to have their own opinions even on a party congresses?   
You guys really need to drop this whole civil war schtick if you want to survive in the long run. 
Good to hear you stood your ground and voted with your heart though.

We have a lot of factional battles in CUF as well, but the idea that I for example would be forced to vote for a flat tax because because my district is majority Libertarian, or that Hanna Wagenius would be forced to vote for the monarchy because her district is Farmer dominated would be absurd to us.

Anyway rant over.

Hosting the congress is lots of fun so you guys should definable try to get it to your district next year. Though why settle with Sundsvall, show them some real deep red Labour area and take them all the way home to Kramfors.  

In other news, I received my preselection ballot for the Centre Party list for the EP elections today. I will have a long night researching all the 90!! candidates.

Well unfortunately it's sort of grown into an unofficial thing, delegation leaders will only say that for example they prefer that reservations are talked over with the delegation a few days prior to the congress and they never openly force delegates into voting a certain way, so it's not really official whipping but more subtle hinting and all under the table if you know what I mean. And I stress that the level of "whipping" depends on the district, and some such as Uppland do not partake in the practice.

Yep, that'd be pretty damn sweet. Hell, why not hold the whole thing in Kramfors instead. Give some attention to the smaller towns for once!

Cool! I would say good luck, but I since I'm hoping we'll thoroughly kick your asses that would be a bit dishonest.

[Zanas]

Seriously? Whipping at a youth congress? Swedes...

Oh the ignorance... Youth organizations nearly everywhere are the worst for that. They have the most factions with the most pointless arguments about useless sh**t, the most heated debates, the most manipulations, treachery and fraud. And socialist ones might be the worst of all.

I briefly got involved in one of them in France. I quickly ran away like hell.

[Franknburger]

Seriously? Whipping at a youth congress? Swedes...

Oh the ignorance... Youth organizations nearly everywhere are the worst for that. They have the most factions with the most pointless arguments about useless sh**t, the most heated debates, the most manipulations, treachery and fraud. And socialist ones might be the worst of all.

I briefly got involved in one of them in France. I quickly ran away like hell.

Half a year with the JuSos (SPD youth organisation) did the trick for me. The district whip at that time was Olaf Scholz, who later became SPD Secretary General and now is Mayor of Hamburg.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

I guess it's a clash of ideology between a collectivist and statist ideal on the Socialist parties where individuls are not allowed to put themselves ahead of the group as opposed to the free individualist ideal of Green and Liberal parties. 

[Viewfromthenorth]

Seriously? Whipping at a youth congress? Swedes...

Oh the ignorance... Youth organizations nearly everywhere are the worst for that. They have the most factions with the most pointless arguments about useless sh**t, the most heated debates, the most manipulations, treachery and fraud. And socialist ones might be the worst of all.

I briefly got involved in one of them in France. I quickly ran away like hell.

Good sir,
I have been an active member of several youth organizations. I later found out, in Norway, only the Labour Party youth practices whips.

[The Lord Marbury]

I guess it's a clash of ideology between a collectivist and statist ideal on the Socialist parties where individuls are not allowed to put themselves ahead of the group as opposed to the free individualist ideal of Green and Liberal parties.  

I don't agree with the notion that we have "whips" because of that honestly quite vague reason. But when you take time to consider that most Social Democratic parties in Europe tend to be very much big tent, often containing everyone from socialists to social liberals, it makes a lot of sense that the practice would instead develop as a symptom of the ideological battles within the parties and youth organizations.

[The Lord Marbury]

BTW, if any (swedish speakers) wish to see the debate about the issue that caused me so much annoyance and anger, it's available on this site.
http://abflive.vivius.se/videos/video/1958/

The specific debate starts roughly around 03:57.

[Tayya]

Marbury just described 50% of my skepticism towards youth organizations, though I'm contemplating joining one anyways regularly...

For the record, I also had an S+MP+FP government drawn up way back when the media talked about it the most, looking like this (first minister in each paragraph is the head of the ministry):

PM: Stefan Löfven (S) [Party Leader]
Deputy PM: Åsa Romson (MP) (shifting out for Fridolin in 2016) [Party Spokesperson]

Foreign Affairs: Carin Jämtin (S) [Party Secretary]
Trade: Urban Ahlin (S) [Spokesperson for Foreign Affairs]
Foreign Aid: Fredrik Malm (FP) [Spokesperson for Foreign Affairs]
EU Affairs: Marie Granlund (S) [MP, deputy chair of EU committee, Malmö party chairman]

Finance: Magdalena Andersson (S) [Spokesperson for Finance/Shadow Minister of Finance]
Financial Markets: Fredrik Olovsson (S) [Parliamentary Spokesperson for Finance/Replacement for Magdalena Andersson who isn't in the Riksdag]
Local Government: Anneli Hulthén (S) [Mayor of Gothenburg]

Defence: Peter Hultqvist (S) [Chairman of the Defence Committee]

Justice: Thomas Bodström (S) [Former Minister of Justice]
Migration and Asylum Affairs: Maria Ferm (MP) [Spokesperson for Migration Affairs]

Education: Maria Arnholm (FP) [Minister of Equality]
Schools: Mikael Damberg (S) [Spokesperson for Education]
Equality: Birgitta Ohlsson (FP) [Minister of EU Affairs]
Integration: Ardalan Shekarabi (S) [MP]

Enterprise: Gustav Fridolin (MP) [Party Spokesperson]
Energy: Matilda Ernkrans (S) [MP]
Infrastructure: Bodil Ceballos (MP) [MP]
Sustainable Development: Emilia Hagberg (MP) [Former Stockholm city council member, almost Green City Council Leader]

Health and Social Affairs: Erik Ullenhag (FP) [Minister of Integration]
Health Care: Lena Hallengren (S) [Former Minister of Youth]
Social Security: Morgan Johansson (S) [Former Minister of Social Security]

Rural Affairs: Åsa Westlund (S) [MEP]

Environment: Åsa Romson (MP) [Party Spokesperson]

Culture and Sports: Stefan Holm (S) [Athlete]

Employment: Therese Guovelin (S) [Deputy Chair of the Hotel and Restaurant Workers' Union]

A few oddities in retrospect, admittedly, such as having 26 (!) ministers, but it shows that such a government would have to compromise a lot.

[The Lord Marbury]

BTW, if any (swedish speakers) wish to see the debate about the issue that caused me so much annoyance and anger, it's available on this site.
http://abflive.vivius.se/videos/video/1958/

The specific debate starts roughly around 03:57.

Marbury just described 50% of my skepticism towards youth organizations, though I'm contemplating joining one anyways regularly...

For the record, I also had an S+MP+FP government drawn up way back when the media talked about it the most, looking like this (first minister in each paragraph is the head of the ministry):

PM: Stefan Löfven (S)
Deputy PM: Åsa Romson (MP) (shifting out for Fridolin in 2016)

Foreign Affairs: Carin Jämtin (S)
Trade: Urban Ahlin (S)
Foreign Aid: Fredrik Malm (FP)
EU Affairs: Marie Granlund (S)

Finance: Magdalena Andersson (S)
Financial Markets: Fredrik Olovsson (S)
Local Government: Anneli Hulthén (S)

Defence: Peter Hultqvist (S)

Justice: Thomas Bodström (S)
Migration and Asylum Affairs: Maria Ferm (MP)

Education: Maria Arnholm (FP)
Schools: Mikael Damberg (S)
Equality: Birgitta Ohlsson (FP)
Integration: Ardalan Shekarabi (S)

Enterprise: Gustav Fridolin (MP)
Energy: Matilda Ernkrans (S)
Infrastructure: Bodil Ceballos (MP)
Sustainable Development: Emilia Hagberg (MP)

Health and Social Affairs: Erik Ullenhag (FP)
Health Care: Lena Hallengren (S)
Social Security: Morgan Johansson (S)

Rural Affairs: Åsa Westlund (S)

Environment: Åsa Romson (MP)

Culture and Sports: Stefan Holm (S)

Employment: Therese Guovelin (S)

A few oddities in retrospect, admittedly, such as having 26 (!) ministers, but it shows that such a government would have to compromise a lot.

I understand that, and at times I have become frustrated with the direction the party and the youth league takes, at times making me consider to not continue as an active member. Though that's usually when I start to remember why I joined in the first place; a strong respect for the history of labour movement, as well as a sincere belief in the ideals it espouses and that it is possible to fundamentally change the shape of our society. And then I just say "better to stay and fight for what you believe in rather than give up and do nothing". Sounds incredibly cheesy but that's the way it is.

Also, may I ask which youth league you have considered joining?

Looks like a somewhat realistic take of a S+MP+FP coalition, though I think it's a possbility that S would be prefer parting with Justice or Defense in exchange for keeping Health. At least if FP has a more social liberal leadership than today, which I assume they have considering your list. The party leader is either Arnholm or Ullenhag, correct?

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Every time I see Carin Jämtin's name combined with any powerful position I want to move to another country.

At least she's an asset for the right. I can't wait until we have Subway butlers on the national level.

[Tayya]

BTW, if any (swedish speakers) wish to see the debate about the issue that caused me so much annoyance and anger, it's available on this site.
http://abflive.vivius.se/videos/video/1958/

The specific debate starts roughly around 03:57.

Marbury just described 50% of my skepticism towards youth organizations, though I'm contemplating joining one anyways regularly...

For the record, I also had an S+MP+FP government drawn up way back when the media talked about it the most, looking like this (first minister in each paragraph is the head of the ministry):

PM: Stefan Löfven (S)
Deputy PM: Åsa Romson (MP) (shifting out for Fridolin in 2016)

Foreign Affairs: Carin Jämtin (S)
Trade: Urban Ahlin (S)
Foreign Aid: Fredrik Malm (FP)
EU Affairs: Marie Granlund (S)

Finance: Magdalena Andersson (S)
Financial Markets: Fredrik Olovsson (S)
Local Government: Anneli Hulthén (S)

Defence: Peter Hultqvist (S)

Justice: Thomas Bodström (S)
Migration and Asylum Affairs: Maria Ferm (MP)

Education: Maria Arnholm (FP)
Schools: Mikael Damberg (S)
Equality: Birgitta Ohlsson (FP)
Integration: Ardalan Shekarabi (S)

Enterprise: Gustav Fridolin (MP)
Energy: Matilda Ernkrans (S)
Infrastructure: Bodil Ceballos (MP)
Sustainable Development: Emilia Hagberg (MP)

Health and Social Affairs: Erik Ullenhag (FP)
Health Care: Lena Hallengren (S)
Social Security: Morgan Johansson (S)

Rural Affairs: Åsa Westlund (S)

Environment: Åsa Romson (MP)

Culture and Sports: Stefan Holm (S)

Employment: Therese Guovelin (S)

A few oddities in retrospect, admittedly, such as having 26 (!) ministers, but it shows that such a government would have to compromise a lot.

I understand that, and at times I have become frustrated with the direction the party and the youth league takes, at times making me consider to not continue as an active member. Though that's usually when I start to remember why I joined in the first place; a strong respect for the history of labour movement, as well as a sincere belief in the ideals it espouses and that it is possible to fundamentally change the shape of our society. And then I just say "better to stay and fight for what you believe in rather than give up and do nothing". Sounds incredibly cheesy but that's the way it is.

Also, may I ask which youth league you have considered joining?

Looks like a somewhat realistic take of a S+MP+FP coalition, though I think it's a possbility that S would be prefer parting with Justice or Defense in exchange for keeping Health. At least if FP has a more social liberal leadership than today, which I assume they have considering your list. The party leader is either Arnholm or Ullenhag, correct?

I like your motivations. Keep going. I'm just too much of a perfectionist to be active without giving my all, which would inevitably lead me into dirty politics and corruption...

I considered all parties on the left wing (Social Democratic: too much about factionalism and power struggles, Green: I eat meat and would probably have to change my lifestyle or get too much flack plus that my passion is not in the environmental issues, Left: Too dogmatic and firebrand) as well as the Pirates (Would give me social stigma I don't want and confuse me with technobabble).

Arnholm was the intended party leader. My interpretation was that the Social Democrats preferred a Liberal at Social Affairs and keeping him in check with the deputy ministries to letting the whole Justice department slide. The Greens would never let a Liberal have Defence or EU Affairs (that one could even be scrapped, actually).

Re: Jämtin - she's apparently doing a good job as Party Secretary, so I imagine she's a decent manager, just absurdly out of touch when it comes to actual issues. Why I gave her Foreign Affairs? No idea. Bizarre in retrospect.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Re: Jämtin - she's apparently doing a good job as Party Secretary, so I imagine she's a decent manager, just absurdly out of touch when it comes to actual issues. Why I gave her Foreign Affairs? No idea. Bizarre in retrospect.

It's not very bizarre at all, a lot of people have mentioned her as a potential S Foreign Affairs minister. And there is of course a long tradition of Swedish governments to always have one person on the big four who's completly incompetent at their job but who happens to be a very loyal servant to the party. Beatrice Ask, Leila Feivalds, Bosse Ringholm.

Still the fact that it's realistic doesn't make me like the idea any more.

The only thing I find unrealistic with your line up is that the Greens would never sit in a goverment that had a FP education minister, even if it was a more social liberal one like Arnholm. And I have never once heard Fridolin talk about about Enterprise issues, so I have no idea why he'd want that post.

EDIT: Oh and as much as I like Stefan Holm, he wouldn't want to be a minister.

[Tayya]

True re: Jämtin, I guess that's how I reasoned a few months ago...

I never saw the big split between the Greens and Liberals on education any more, at least not since they started moderating. When Björklund would leave I think most rifts would heal, since he's so divisive on education. And I didn't know where else to put a Liberal (Trade, maybe?)

Re: Stefan Holm: For fun, mostly, and he did work with (S) in some policy group if I recall correctly. Though I agree that he's not a good fit for a cabinet.

[Tayya]

Polling season is coming! I saw one from Metro/YouGov a while ago that showed a small gain for the Moderates/Alliance, here's (admittedly probably the least trustworthy of the pollsters) United Minds for Aftonbladet:

M+FP+C+KD 38,5 % (-1,1)
S+V+MP 48,4 % (+0,1)

M 24,5 % (-1,3)
FP 4,6 % (-1,7)
C 4,9 % (+1,2)
KD 4,5 % (+0,7)

MP 9,1 % (+0,2)
S 33,2 % (+1,2)
V 6,1 % (-1,1)

SD 11,3 % (+0,6)

Others 1,9 % (+0,2)

Screams outlier to me considering that the Centre Party beats the Liberals here - but it's always fun to post polls. For the record, United Minds tends to show better results for the Sweden Democrats than other pollsters.