SENATE BILL: Firearms and Mental Health Act of 2013 (Law'd)
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  SENATE BILL: Firearms and Mental Health Act of 2013 (Law'd)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Firearms and Mental Health Act of 2013 (Law'd)  (Read 7662 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: January 02, 2013, 08:09:52 PM »
« edited: February 06, 2013, 06:54:49 PM by Senator North Carolina Yankee »

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 08:14:42 PM »

Senator, you have 24 hours to commence an advocacy here.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 03:03:45 AM »

First, I want to state that I'm completely open to changing the numbers here and reworking the specifics. If y'all think we could get into a few more details, let's get into a few more details. If something similar is on the books already, let me know and I'll try to sort things out.

Now, obviously this bill doesn't address every facet of violent crime... that's not the point here. What it does do, is give the government more resources to devote to mental health programs. Too often do we write off people's psychological concerns as "whining" or a weakness of character. We need to change the way Atlasians think about mental health. We also need to make sure that help is there for people who need it. We've seen the sheer devastation that troubled individuals can cause when they feel like they've fallen through the cracks of society; indeed, had this country approached mental health differently, we might've been able to help these folks before they resorted to violent crime. What I'm proposing is a small step towards where I think we ought to be.

Funding new mental health programs with a sales tax on guns may be controversial, but I wasn't prepared to create an unfunded initiative. And while I strongly support Atlasians' right to bear arms, I'm also not oblivious to the fact that guns kill. So for every gun that's sold, let's put some effort into making sure they're not used for evil. I don't think that's too outrageous.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 03:32:38 AM »

One of the main problems that has in fact played a direct role in at least two of the recent RL shootings (Tuscon and Aurora) has been the failure to identify/seek appropriate measures on the part of those close to the shooters before the incident. Therefore the treatment (while in some cases may certainly be lacking but in the cases that it isn't so) may end up going unutilized before it is too late. Typically, becaue either that person is a family member (and thus doesn't want to be responsible for institutionalizing a relative or a none relative (could be a group of people) who prefer not to rock the boat and just hope he doesn't whip out an AR-15 in their office building.

Part of this is self inflicted by society because of the way it treats mental health, which serves to create a stigma that leads people to avoid treatment or leads a second person (relative or not) to not take any action towards getting the troubled person professional assistance.
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 03:33:48 AM »

I think I would rather the firearm sales tax be around 40 or 50%, but this is a good bill regardless.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 03:40:29 AM »

Part of this is self inflicted by society because of the way it treats mental health, which serves to create a stigma that leads people to avoid treatment or leads a second person (relative or not) to not take any action towards getting the troubled person professional assistance.

I couldn't agree with you more. That's why I've outlined "mental health outreach" as one of the areas of interest for these programs. Lately, I've actually seen a number of public service announcements on TV encouraging people to "call BS" on the way we deal with mental health. I think this message is great. So when I mentioned mental health outreach, it was with these kinds of campaigns in mind.
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Niemeyerite
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 10:27:23 AM »

I'll support this no matter what, but I think 80% would be better Tongue (so we can negotiate and have, at least, a 40% tax as Marokai proposed hahaha..).
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 01:39:50 PM »

Perhaps we should tax ammunition at a higher rate than the firearms themselves so we don't encourage too many people to turn to the black market for the guns themselves, but still make up the money when people go to buy bullets?
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 04:05:54 PM »

An amendment:

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This is merely in the interests of consumer convenience; people should know what they will have to pay, taxes and all.

I also feel such a high tax as Senator Marokai has proposed would make it unnecessarily hard for some to purchase a firearm.
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Niemeyerite
JulioMadrid
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« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 07:41:54 PM »

An amendment:

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This is merely in the interests of consumer convenience; people should know what they will have to pay, taxes and all.

I also feel such a high tax as Senator Marokai has proposed would make it unnecessarily hard for some to purchase a firearm.

Well, people shouldn't purchase firearms, IMO. The tax rate should be increased, at least, to 30%. Tobbacco taxes are very high and people still buy them.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 09:18:22 PM »

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 09:19:53 PM »

Perhaps we should tax ammunition at a higher rate than the firearms themselves so we don't encourage too many people to turn to the black market for the guns themselves, but still make up the money when people go to buy bullets?

Either is potential black market item really, but I guess if we want one or the other to be less likely to be acquired that way, it is the gun itself.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 01:01:55 AM »

I'll accept Snowstalker's amendment as friendly... I don't really have strong feelings one way or the other.

I originally didn't want the tax to be hidden because I thought it would be a good idea to have customers see that they were buying into "a larger cause." If anyone thinks that's important, feel free to object. I might end up being on your side.

As for increasing the tax any higher, look—I'm a conservative. I don't want it to be outrageous. As Marokai mentioned, there's a black market for this stuff. The higher the tax is, the more weapons find their way onto the market. The highest I'd probably be willing to go is 25%, but I'm not even sure on that. I'd be open to including ammo as a taxable purchase, but I don't really see why we'd need to create a completely different rate.

Now, Nix... I don't know how sold I am on the idea of insuring guns. What are the benefits? How much would it cost gun owners? Generally, I'm not too up for increasing the paperwork around guns. Adding a requirement for insurance could lose my support. Just being honest. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2013, 02:20:25 AM »

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Status: Senators have 24 hours to object to the above amendment.
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Oakvale
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 05:09:47 AM »

Honestly, I think the issue of mental heath support, while (obviously) rather important tends to be a convenient canard for the NRA et al to point fingers instead of address the issue of gun control. Still, no objections - I'm always in favour of improving our mental health funding.

No objections to the amendment.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2013, 12:39:28 PM »

Oh, I'm willing to address the issue of gun control... It just probably won't be the way you want me to. Tongue
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 07:21:37 PM »

I'd prefer a higher tax, but I'd still support this if a their aren't enough votes for it.  That being said, I propose the following amendment:

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Spamage
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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 08:41:20 PM »

I'm going to have to agree with Hagrid and say that 25% is probably the highest I'm willing to go on the tax as of now. 15% seems like a good number as it isn't too high (which could lead, as stated much before, to the Black Market) while anything less is too low due to a smaller amount of money going to mental health outreach and support services which could be lifesaving.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 09:59:28 PM »

Yep. Sorry, Mr. X. Unfriendly.

But if you want to withdraw your amendment and change it to 25%, I'll call it friendly.
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Chancellor Tanterterg
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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 10:06:50 PM »

No worries Smiley I withdraw my earlier amendment and introduce the following one:

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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2013, 10:12:33 PM »

Friendly. Smiley
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Snowstalker Mk. II
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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2013, 10:16:31 PM »

No objections.
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Barnes
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« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2013, 12:03:57 AM »

I'm glad to see that we're starting to really address the larger mental healthcare crisis that faces our country.  We must not for one moment simply assume that a violent shooter or assailant is automatically a mental health patient.  Indeed, many are, or have the potential to be, but this does not meed we have to carelessly and hurtfully highlight and target a very desperate section of our society.

This bill does not do that, and I am happy to support it as it currently stands.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2013, 12:53:40 AM »

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Status: The Vice President can call 24 hours on passage of this above amendment.
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World politics is up Schmitt creek
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2013, 01:44:37 AM »

Senators have twenty-four hours to object.
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