Rep. Massie introduces repeal of Federal "Gun free" School Zones Act

[memphis]

I can think of no rational person who would make themselves feel safer by putting a big sign out in front of their house that says "I am unarmed. Please do not rob me."

And yet nobody that I'm aware of advertises that they have a gun in their house either. Just asking for a burglary when nobody's home.

They don't need to, there's just the possibility, and why would you go somewhere where there might possibly be a gun when there are signs directing you to where there aren't any?

Because a gun is exactly what many criminals are out to steal.

[Donerail]

I can think of no rational person who would make themselves feel safer by putting a big sign out in front of their house that says "I am unarmed. Please do not rob me."

And yet nobody that I'm aware of advertises that they have a gun in their house either. Just asking for a burglary when nobody's home.

They don't need to, there's just the possibility, and why would you go somewhere where there might possibly be a gun when there are signs directing you to where there aren't any?

Because a gun is exactly what many criminals are out to steal.

The majority of criminals are not out to steal guns, they are out to steal anything that is valuable, and will choose the path of least resistance to get that.

[minionofmidas]

The plurality of all criminals are out to evade taxes.

[memphis]

I can think of no rational person who would make themselves feel safer by putting a big sign out in front of their house that says "I am unarmed. Please do not rob me."

And yet nobody that I'm aware of advertises that they have a gun in their house either. Just asking for a burglary when nobody's home.

They don't need to, there's just the possibility, and why would you go somewhere where there might possibly be a gun when there are signs directing you to where there aren't any?

Because a gun is exactly what many criminals are out to steal.

The majority of criminals are not out to steal guns, they are out to steal anything that is valuable, and will choose the path of least resistance to get that.

I'm much much more concerned about the guy who steals guns to commit violent crimes (and there are many of them) than the guy who wants to pawn my tv to get some more meth. Property crime sucks hard and I've been a victim to it several times, but as a probelm, it nowhere close to the magnitude of violent crime, which I'm very fortunate never to have experienced.

[SPC]

...this law is necessary for the simple fact that without it, school police would not have the legal ability to stop and question someone walking into a school building with a visible firearm because there is no law against it as carry a legal firearm would no longer constitute as suspicion under the law until they start shooting.

This assumes that carrying a firearm should constitute reason for suspicion under the law. If so, then why should schools be any different from any other location?

Because it's a publicly owned building?  Are you perfectly okay with anyone being allowed to enter a school, prison, courthouse, or the White House with a firearm and security not having any rights to question them on it or deem it suspicious under the law?

I see no reason why the same logic that dictates that people should not be considered suspicious for carrying a gun at any other location would dictate that they should be considered suspicious for carrying a gun in a public building. I suppose you could argue that people who currently enter public buildings with a firearm typically have malicious intent, but that is a circular argument, since public buildings are already "gun-free zones," and thus no law-abiding citizen can carry a firearm into a public building.

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http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Do the people mocking this idea believe that no one should be able to carry a gun onto school grounds? 

Yes. Absolutely.

So this is an argument for pacifism then?  That's a fine view to have, but it's far from obviously the right one.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Do the people mocking this idea believe that no one should be able to carry a gun onto school grounds? 

Yes. Absolutely.

So this is an argument for pacifism then?  That's a fine view to have, but it's far from obviously the right one.

Why would anyone need a gun (or at least a loaded one. I could accept unloaded ones used for demonstrations, etc) in a school?

If you are so paranoid about mass shooters tearing about kids that you think is the best solution is to arm people, especially teachers then the shooters have already won. You are creating the world they live in. Congratulations.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Do the people mocking this idea believe that no one should be able to carry a gun onto school grounds? 

Yes. Absolutely.

So this is an argument for pacifism then?  That's a fine view to have, but it's far from obviously the right one.

Why would anyone need a gun (or at least a loaded one. I could accept unloaded ones used for demonstrations, etc) in a school?

If you are so paranoid about mass shooters tearing about kids that you think is the best solution is to arm people, especially teachers then the shooters have already won. You are creating the world they live in. Congratulations.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure the shooters have won anything either way, and I wouldn't call it paranoid when these things actually do happen. 
And when it does, it's understandable that people want to feel that their children are protected. 

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Do the people mocking this idea believe that no one should be able to carry a gun onto school grounds? 

Yes. Absolutely.

So this is an argument for pacifism then?  That's a fine view to have, but it's far from obviously the right one.

Why would anyone need a gun (or at least a loaded one. I could accept unloaded ones used for demonstrations, etc) in a school?

If you are so paranoid about mass shooters tearing about kids that you think is the best solution is to arm people, especially teachers then the shooters have already won. You are creating the world they live in. Congratulations.

Perhaps, but I'm not sure the shooters have won anything either way, and I wouldn't call it paranoid when these things actually do happen. 
And when it does, it's understandable that people want to feel that their children are protected. 

Yes. And the best way for this to happen? Stop talking about guns. Stop having guns. Stop dreaming guns. Stop identifying guns as some sort of part of one's identity. Stop with this whole ridiculous macho fantasy about white boy saving the day from Crazed Psycho (TM) by slugging him with perfect aim and precision during what would be probably the most intense seconds of your life. I'm not American, but if I were, I would want protection from gun nuts far more than the likes of Crazed Psycho (no offense to him, I don't know him personally). Why? Because it is the guns discourse which is so poisonous and absurd and has absolutely nothing to do with the prospects of security and everything about the fear and paranoid which seep into every conversation about guns by gun nuts. Want proof? Gun sales going through the roof after Sandy Hook and the threats to take the toys away is proof enough. It is also shows that this nothing, nothing to do with the practical uses of guns, which legislation can always protect, but about perverse masculinity and fear. And neither of those things would make me feel secure [/rant over].

[Beet]

The goal of public policy should be public security.

Forms of private security, such as private citizens defending themselves, or local institutions (such as schools) creating their own defense should be seen as only secondary, and imperfect (for they are). Generally they are more costly and less reliable than public security; in the extreme, in a world of only private security, life is "nasty, brutish, and short". There is good reason that never before have any civilized people chosen private security when public security was possible. The Wild West existed precisely because the alternative was impossible at the time.

The public security imperative here is limiting the ownership of guns, and we should vigorously pursue it.

[Bandit3 the Worker]

Massie is the congressman from my district. He might be a one-termer, but not because of this.