Jindal: Out, corporate & income tax. In, increased sales tax.
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 06:23:35 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Election Archive
  Election Archive
  2016 U.S. Presidential Election
  Jindal: Out, corporate & income tax. In, increased sales tax.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: Jindal: Out, corporate & income tax. In, increased sales tax.  (Read 3155 times)
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 07:29:30 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Ooh, that's a new idea. /scribbles down. 
Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,258
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 07:48:11 PM »

Sales tax is the worst possible tax ever. Yes, it provides a lot of revenue, but it hurts the poor more than the rich. Huey Long is rolling in his grave.

Huey Long's administration wasn't exactly a model of good government either. Honestly, the only governor that state has produced who wasn't corrupt, incompetent or an ideologue may have been Buddy Roemer. And we all know where that got him.
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2013, 12:09:42 AM »

Sales tax only is awesome. LA's been getting their lunch eaten by TX.
Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,258
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2013, 12:35:37 AM »

Sales tax only is awesome. LA's been getting their lunch eaten by TX.

That has nothing to do with it and everything to do with LA's terrible roads, terrible public schools and a population that can't handle anything more complicated than boiling crawfish. The only time the rest of the country sets foot there is to get drunk or gamble.
Logged
Zioneer
PioneerProgress
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,451
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2013, 12:38:23 AM »

Sales tax is the worst possible tax ever. Yes, it provides a lot of revenue, but it hurts the poor more than the rich. Huey Long is rolling in his grave.

Huey Long's administration wasn't exactly a model of good government either. Honestly, the only governor that state has produced who wasn't corrupt, incompetent or an ideologue may have been Buddy Roemer. And we all know where that got him.

Huey Long at least helped the poor in Louisiana, more than any of his predecessors did.
Logged
Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
Runeghost
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,367


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2013, 02:18:08 AM »


Yep. Should make him real popular with his party's owners.
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2013, 11:15:53 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

LA changing their laws hurts TX so I can see why you're opposed to it. We can't mug LA residents as much anymore. Sad
Logged
pbrower2a
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,842
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2013, 11:26:23 AM »

VATs do interest me.  It is incredibly efficient compared to income tax.  Perhaps there is a way to keep it progressive, like if it was done in combination with a simple income tax. 

For example:

Income tax brackets would be up shifted 50k: 0% for first $50,000, 10% for 50,001-58,700, etc., etc.

Then, projected loss of revenue would be matched up with a projected equal gain in revenue for % VAT.

The rich still pay more taxes.  We would also make EBT purchases tax exempt

A VAT as a rule is a regressive tax because it falls on the ultimate consumer. Where a VAT is in use it comes with an elaborate and generous cradle-to-grave welfare state without which such a tax would lead to riots. If it comes with free education through grad school for anyone with the grades, generous unemployment benefits, and Medicare for All....  we would be Germany.
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2013, 11:30:24 AM »

Germany has eliminated their income tax?
Logged
DINGO Joe
dingojoe
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,700
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2013, 11:50:52 AM »
« Edited: January 12, 2013, 03:24:45 PM by dingojoe »

Right now the state collects a 4% sales tax (groceries and medicine are exempt but not clothing) and the parishes on average collect 5% on everything for a total of 9%.  It's estimated that the state would have to raise it 3% to keep it revenue neutral.  That would make the sales tax 12%.

Psychologically, 12% sounds huge to me, even if I'm not paying  state income tax anymore.  I personally have to go to Mississippi about once a week and it would be worth the trouble on my part to stop at a Walmart  and make my mundane purchases (razors, cat food, etc),  and of course clothing and electronics would be purchased while out of state.  The biggest rubs would be dining out and car purchases. 

Louisiana does rely on tourism as a major employer and revenue generator.  Would tourists blindly accept that rate or would they decide to go somewhere cheaper?

On edit--utilities are exempt also.

Logged
pbrower2a
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,842
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2013, 11:56:23 AM »

I think you're right about the intent, but even giving him the benefit of the doubt, he's trying to get the poors to leave and the richers to come in. And that may happen a very little, but Republicans grossly overestimate the effect that tax codes have on people in the real world. If taxes were that important, there would be very few high earners in NY and CA and many in my home state, which has no income tax on earned income. Instead, you have the opposite. And you have a lot inequality based problems. But that's the South for you.

1. Louisiana pols have the idea that New Orleans thrives on its tourist industry, and that high sales taxes hit Chicago tourists more than they hit the poor.  Such is a common misconception about the sales taxes. In most places the customers are locals -- especially in a large metro area. Maybe ski and beach resorts fit that description, but that is a poor argument even for the city that is the biggest tourist attraction of all -- New York City.

2. Sales taxes as a rule disproportionately hit the poor -- especially if food is not exempt. But even without taxes on food sales taxes hit the poor for utilities (even if those are furnished by the landlord who can pass the cost onto renters), gasoline, clothing, and housewares -- let alone fast food meals and cr@ppy used cars that the rich do not buy.  This is an iron rule. Sure, the rich buy luxuries, but they aren't spending every last cent that they get to survive. The fellow paying cash for a new Mercedes almost as a rule is not paying as much a share of his income on automobile costs as the fellow who buys a succession of clunkers from tote-the-note rip-off places.

3. I don't see how Louisiana could be a favored destination for well-heeled retirees to live.  Housing costs are high in the only city with any semblance of a cosmopolitan culture. Miami has more to offer at that.  Winters are still decidedly winters, so the state doesn't attract the snowbirds.

4. The tax structure of most southern states shows the heritage of the plantation system. Self-contained plantations as a rule had no cash economy for those who worked there -- they got payment in kind and often the castoffs of the elites. The only time that anyone ever got cash was when  the planter got revenue from selling cotton, lumber, cattle, rice, tobacco, or some other cash crop. The plantation as a rule grew its own staple crops for local consumption, and about the only time when a planter spent money was when the family 'imported' some luxury goods (which could be taxed), more property (not taxed), or in the really-old days slaves. Of course the planters who dominated the plantations did not face an income tax.

But anyone outside the plantation did pay taxes on just about everything. Independent commerce and industry could never flourish. But who needed independent commerce or industry when King Cotton dominated the economy and made a great life for the planters, the only people who mattered in the Natural Order of Things? After all, economic elites have little use for an independent middle class whether shopkeepers or government employees. When one can pay such people as clergy in chickens and flour... get the idea?


      
Logged
Wisconsin+17
Ben Kenobi
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,127
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2013, 03:18:18 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

If the rich buy luxuries doesn't that mean that they are contributing that much more to the public coffers? Also - how does income tax affect tourists? Sales tax means that everyone who purchases anything in Louisiana pays the tax. Instead of having the residents contribute 100 percent, now you have the tourists contributing a significant proportion - so you're effectively shifting the burden away from residents.

2, there already exists a sales tax in Louisiana. The argument isn't 100 percent income taxes vs 100 percent sales tax. Sales tax isn't going away. So instead of poor people having their paychecks withheld before they even see that money - they are getting to keep their money and only have to pay money when they choose to buy things. The less you spend - the more you save - and the more money you have sitting in your bank account.
Logged
Sbane
sbane
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,303


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2013, 03:23:30 PM »

Louisiana does rely on tourism as a major employer and revenue generator.  Would tourists blindly accept that rate or would they decide to go somewhere cheaper?


Actually this is why the plan might actually work (if we ignore the F the poor factor). Lots of people visit New Orleans, and a 3% increase in sales taxes is not going to change that.
Logged
DINGO Joe
dingojoe
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,700
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2013, 03:43:28 PM »

Just for frame of reference:

Sales tax brought in 2.6 Billion for the state last year

Income, Corporate and franchise taxes brought in 2.9 Billion

That would mean the sales tax would have to more than double to make up the revenue, but the state says there are 2.5 Billion in exemptions to the sales tax with groceries, utilities and medicine making up $700 million.  Those wouldn't be touched, but areas that aren't taxed now, like some services like landscaping (but oddly enough not accounting or lawyer services) would be subject to sales tax.

I saw one story where auto dealers were concerned about the proposal, but if the state capped the tax for autos they were OK with it (in other words if they get an exemption, they're OK with it).

The state also pulled in 1.4 billion in severance tax revenue last year, which is actually down from 2.2 billion in 2009 as drillers have moved on to more profitably and liquid rich places to drill.


Again, from my modest middle income point of view, getting rid of the income tax would save me money and I would attempt to spend out of state in lower sales tax states to avoid paying that money back into the state.  What percentage of the state can or would do that I don't know.

Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,258
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2013, 03:52:13 PM »

Louisiana does rely on tourism as a major employer and revenue generator.  Would tourists blindly accept that rate or would they decide to go somewhere cheaper?


Actually this is why the plan might actually work (if we ignore the F the poor factor). Lots of people visit New Orleans, and a 3% increase in sales taxes is not going to change that.

Agreed. New Orleans is New Orleans and there really isn't anywhere else like it that it "competes" with. Because my own state is only selectively in favor of free markets and refuses to legalize casino gambling, the people in Houston will still go to LA to gamble. (They're not going to drive all the way up to Oklahoma to the Indian casinos over a 3% sales tax increase).
Logged
DINGO Joe
dingojoe
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 11,700
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2013, 04:08:27 PM »

Soaking the tourists is pretty much the bedrock of the Florida tax system, and if you've ever looked at a hotel bill that goes for just about everywhere.  Ultimately there is some kind a breaking point, though I don't pretend to know what that might be.

I think we are also overstating the importance of tourist revenue too.  The price of natural gas probably impacts state revenue more than tourist spending.
Logged
Simfan34
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,744
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.90, S: 4.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2013, 10:55:23 AM »

Evil VAT! Which is why all those reactionary countries like Sweden and France have them.
Logged
fezzyfestoon
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,204
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2013, 11:47:24 AM »

Ignoring the laundry list of problems this has regarding personal taxation, how much easier will this make it for the biggest companies in LA to skirt taxation?
Logged
pbrower2a
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,842
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2013, 02:07:03 PM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

If the rich buy luxuries doesn't that mean that they are contributing that much more to the public coffers? Also - how does income tax affect tourists? Sales tax means that everyone who purchases anything in Louisiana pays the tax. Instead of having the residents contribute 100 percent, now you have the tourists contributing a significant proportion - so you're effectively shifting the burden away from residents.

The point is that it is far easier for some plutocrat to buy a Mercedes-Benz than it is for someone working for $8 an hour to meet the payments for a 10-year-old car with 150K miles on it. That poor person also spends a far larger proportion of his pay on food, even if the food is rice and beans for the poor person and the rich person buys lobster. $8 an hour means that the cast-off television at Goodwill is more of a burden than some 65" screen TV is to someone making $1 million a year.

Oh, by the way -- Louisiana is one of the poorest states in America. Governor Jindal seems to have no concern that his policies would hurt the poor more. But poor people don't make fat contributions to political campaigns -- the ultimate luxury. 

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.


Maybe some people think that they can 'choose' between buying a bed and sleeping on the bare floor. Maybe some people can 'choose' between having a telephone and not having one. Maybe they can 'choose' between buying such items as dishwashing detergent, laundry soap and toothpaste and not doing so. Basic human needs are often taxable. 


Logged
opebo
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 47,010


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2013, 03:19:15 PM »

Evil VAT! Which is why all those reactionary countries like Sweden and France have them.

They also have generous, comfortable welfare states. 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.045 seconds with 13 queries.