'America in Decline' Narrative Finally in Decline?

[Frodo]

I never believed it for a moment:

America is not in decline or retreat

By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: January 13

We are about to have a major foreign policy debate in the guise of a confirmation battle over Chuck Hagel’s nomination as secretary of defense and the related argument over how long American troops should stay in Afghanistan. President Obama should use this opportunity to stand up for his broader vision of how American power can be sustained and used, even if that doesn’t come naturally to a pragmatist who likes making decisions one at a time.

Underlying this clash will be another over whether the United States is in long-term decline. We are not, and the decline discussion should not scare us. We seem to have it every few decades.

[Franzl]

In relative terms, of course.

[Sbane]

We are doing almost the best in the developed world. Australia and Canada might be in a better situation but their economies are mug smaller relative to how much natural resources they have. America has a lot as wel, but a much larger population as well. America is certainly doing better than Europe or Japan. As for the developing world, of course they will grow faster as they are growing from a smaller base. Good for them.

[Simfan34]

Of course it is. Other countries are now more capitalist than we are- Singapore. Others have more robust economies, namely China, which is pretty much the same size as we are at this point, and on an upwards trajectory. Others are freer and more democratic, more "American" in governance and practice than the US- Switzerland, Australia, and Canada come to mind. Our HDI is shamefully low, our Doing Business score out of the top five, the education and health indices are even worse. The United States, at this point, is a large mediocre nation. Problem is there are larger ones, and better ones.

We wasted our clout in a useless quagmire in Iraq, with a laser-like focus on the Middle East to the detriment of every other region in the world, with the result that China is now breathing down our metaphorical neck in Panama, for crying out loud. Africa is in some ways a Chinese protectorate at this point. It sounds incredulous, but when they build the African Union's headquarters, it says something about the state of relations. Imagine if China paid to build the Capitol and we sent Hillary Clinton to Beijing. This is what happened in Ethiopia- Foreign Minister Seyoum Mesfin is now Ambassador to China.

The United States is becoming more irrelevant by the day. Worst part is, the time for us to act was fifteen years ago or so. Now the only way to change trajectories is to change our competitors- which is nigh impossible. No, it's not Obama's fault. He's not really helping, but it's much more Bush's and his predecessors- going back to say, Nixon. Even Harry Truman shares a very specific portion of the blame, although he can hardly be blamed for lack of foreknowledge.

The United States is in decline- absolute decline. Just because some random columnist says it is not so does not make it not so. I never cared for E.J. Dionne, anyway.

[pbrower2a]

Other countries have been catching up to us in economic development, technology, and educational achievement -- and in some cases, surpassing us. We are not alone in having constitutional government.  But such is a good thing. Would we be more troubled if such alternatives as monarchical absolutism, Marxism-Leninism, racist nationalism, or theocracy were gaining on political ideals similar to ours?

Worse, if we had a nasty dictatorship that people wanted to overthrow or at least emigrate from, wouldn't we be in trouble? A political system such as the Soviet Union can put on an extended show of rigidity and be rotting from the inside.  A political order could be offering itself as the Universal State (Toynbee) of an entire civilization in the last stage of rot of that civilization and perhaps extending the scope of that civilization into places in which it is unwelcome -- like Nazi Germany or Thug Japan during World War II -- and we are clearly not that. We have a political and economic order with far more flexibility than did the Roman Empire in late-classical times, the Byzantine Empire of the middle of the Middle Ages, Imperial Russia a century ago, or the ottoman Empire in the 19th Century.

As my posting record indicates, I see signs of potential rot mostly from the Right in people who would atomize us politically, promote pseudoscience and mythologized history in an attempt to unify us, and establish a social order that causes us to chafe (one at once hierarchical, repressive, and grossly inequitable). Just imagine the slave interests getting complete dominion in America and the 1915 Klan (which had most of the hallmarks of a fascist movement).      

  

[Benj]

In relative terms, of course.

^ Absolute terms are meaningless.

[opebo]

The United States is becoming more irrelevant by the day.

The United States is in decline- absolute decline.

Wishful thinking there buddy.

[memphis]

America, like the world, is changing rapidly. Whether it is in "decline" depends largely on what metric one is using to determine that statement. Our inequality has become out of control, and there are all sorts of problems that are associated with that. Our government and laws have become unwieldy. No doubt about that. Yet, we are still a very wealthy nation. One that is wiping out disease across the globe. One where information has never been more accessible. One where the disabled have never had more rights. One where discrimination regarding race, religion, gender, sexual orientation etc is not permitted. And so on. It's a complicated world. Decline or No Decline is not adequate.

[King]

America isn't in decline so much as Asia is in incline.

[Blue3]

When it comes to China, many outsiders seem to forget they have a demographic time-bomb that will turn them grayer than Japan in only a couple decades, with a huge aging population and small younger population capable of working, due to the One-Child Policy. China isn't expected to grow much economically once that begins, maybe just 1-3% a year. It's neighbors are also severely distrusting of China (particularly in SE Asia), and they're all entering into alliance with the United States. There's no where for China to expand militarily into... squeezed between Russia and it's allied states, the allied states of America, and fellow rising superpower India.

India's population is still expected to grow, and its population and economy will be set to overtake China, but that will also lead to even worse overpopulation, pollution, and resource scarcity problems for them.

The United States really is in the best position, and will stay the top superpower (even if our economy by total GDP is eclipsed by China or India at some point).

[DC Al Fine]

The USA is in decline, but it has a looooooonnnng way to go before it's #2

[King]

The posts ITT just show that America will always be in decline whenever one political party is out of power.

[Simfan34]

The posts ITT just show that America will always be in decline whenever one political party is out of power.

Did I say it was Obama's fault? I squarely placed a large share of the blame on Bush?

[King]

The posts ITT just show that America will always be in decline whenever one political party is out of power.

Did I say it was Obama's fault? I squarely placed a large share of the blame on Bush?

Yes, but your outlook about the United States would quickly shift not when any barometers about quality of life change but when someone inline with your beliefs won the election.  If Jon Huntsman was President right now, you'd be spinning a different yarn.

[Blue3]

I like how the President refuted the idea of American decline in his inauguration:

This generation of Americans has been tested by crises that steeled our resolve and proved our resilience. A decade of war is now ending. An economic recovery has begun. America’s possibilities are limitless, for we possess all the qualities that this world without boundaries demands: youth and drive; diversity and openness; an endless capacity for risk and a gift for reinvention. My fellow Americans, we are made for this moment, and we will seize it -- so long as we seize it together.

[fezzyfestoon]

I wouldn't say America is declining as much as it is eroding. It has been for some time now, evidently. I suppose maybe you could argue that process has accelerated in recent years, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree.

[© tweed]

"the American Empire is over and the descent is going to be horrifying" -- Chris Hedges.

the sustainability of the global imperial venture is in serious decline.  see Latin America in the 2000s and the last few years in the Middle East.  it is not in the American character to shift to cooperation in the face of waning ability to dominate, so fully expect an escalation of US-perpetrated violence likely culminating in a global holocaust in one form of another.

it is likely the 'post-civilizational' 'historians', if we can imagine such a thing, will look back at our present time as already part of an era that rendered the civilization-experiment as we know it, doomed.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

"the American Empire is over and the descent is going to be horrifying" -- Chris Hedges.

the sustainability of the global imperial venture is in serious decline.  see Latin America in the 2000s and the last few years in the Middle East.  it is not in the American character to shift to cooperation in the face of waning ability to dominate, so fully expect an escalation of US-perpetrated violence likely culminating in a global holocaust in one form of another.

it is likely the 'post-civilizational' 'historians', if we can imagine such a thing, will look back at our present time as already part of an era that rendered the civilization-experiment as we know it, doomed.

Intense psychological problems result in ideologies that prophesize "the end of the world as we know it" to minimize the cognitive dissonance between said problems and the relatively tranquil/happy/prosperous society we live in.

[Politico]

Everybody knows the blackout in the Super Bowl pretty much symbolizes the state of America today. At this point, homosexuals are the only group of people who believe the nation is on an upward trajectory.

[pbrower2a]

Everybody knows the blackout in the Super Bowl pretty much symbolizes the state of America today. At this point, homosexuals are the only group of people who believe the nation is on an upward trajectory.

When Dubya was President, America was very much in decline. Business ethics were at their worst, government eroded as the President gave real power to Karl Rove, and America was in a speculative boom that could only go bust. We got into one costly war because the President ignored intelligence reports and another because the President lied about a casus belli.  Barack Obama runs a clean operation, like him or not. Any prosperity that we now have is being achieved the old-fashioned way of thrift, work, and investment. I might feel differently had Mitt Romney been elected and a Republican-dominated Congtress enacted one anti-human act after another on behalf of tycoons, big landowners, and executives.

Recognition of LGBT rights is a sign of human decency, and this happens as America becomes increasingly intolerant of spouse abuse and child abuse.   

New Orleans is -- well, New Orleans. It's a place with First World costs and Third World inefficiency.   

The cure for what ails us? Bring back the emphasis on  liberal arts in undergrad education -- the Great Books approach -- and our leaders in every aspect of life will act with more principle and humaneness.

[© tweed]

Intense psychological problems result in ideologies that prophesize "the end of the world as we know it" to minimize the cognitive dissonance between said problems and the relatively tranquil/happy/prosperous society we live in.

nonsense.  everything may appear tranquil from our post in the West, but vast swaths of the World live in squalor and violence.  this is not mere coincidence: we in the West live in relative tranquility precisely because much of the world lives in squalor and violence.  such a situation can't last for long on the evolutionary-clock.


p.s. psychological illness is a social construction.

[© tweed]

going from there, there is a dissonance between labeling American society as 'happy' and the sheer volume and antidepressants and psychiatric drugs that are consumed every year.  owning an iPad -- even if one does not do so via financing at Visa's or AmEx's usurious rates -- is not equal or reducible to happiness.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

America is not in decline. The Constitution is in decline. The later is just as scary as the first.

[Antonio the Sixth]

The whole Western world is in decline since the 1970s, US comprised.

[Link]

America is not in decline. The Constitution is in decline. The later is just as scary as the first.

I have to agree with this.  I preferred the Constitution during the slave days.  That really was the golden era of the US Constitution.  Those were also good times because women couldn't vote.

[/sarcasm]