Some advice

[John Dibble]

This advice goes out to everyone, but Supersoulty in particular - don't take what goes on here so damn seriously.

I have been accused of making a politically motivated ruling in the Bono vs. Atlasia case. I have contended that this is not true - I have absolutely no reason to make decisions in such a manner. In case you haven't noticed, this is a game, it's fantasy, it isn't real. Yes, I personally was opposed to the bill in question during that case, but I made it clear beforehand that I'd do my job and interpret the constitutionality of that bill and nothing more.

What did I oppose about the bill? Well, it went against my personal beliefs on what government should and shouldn't do. Particularly I thought such a thing would be a beauracratic monstrosity that cost a lot of taxpayer money - but in all seriousness I know it wouldn't be, because it is not real. None of my or anyone else's actual tax dollars would go to it, because it only exists in our fantasy government. I had no real gains to make by declaring the law unconstitutional.

So, to my fellow Atlasians, I think we should all take a couple of these and not take things too personally:

[12th Doctor]

A game is only fun when it contians some element of reality and when you really care about the results.  If I were a real Senator, I would not do a lot of the things I do here.  I would be more political, but I do somethings because I care about the result of the game and because I can get a way with a lot more here, because people know my quality.


I take this seriously so far as I care about what happens.  Is their something wrong with me because of that?

[John Dibble]

No, but there is such a thing as taking things too seriously, which right now I think you are. This game is supposed to be fun, and as I said, it is a game, so I think you're reading too much into things.

[12th Doctor]

No, but there is such a thing as taking things too seriously, which right now I think you are. This game is supposed to be fun, and as I said, it is a game, so I think you're reading too much into things.

The funny thing is that I think that, by taking this ruling, and overturning the clear will of the Senate, it is you and KEmp who are making this less fun.  And that is what makes me angry more than anything else.  You had to interprit this through your veiw to come to you conclusion.  I say that, unless it is a clear and obvious violation of the Constitution, not just an infered one, which this was not, then the Supreme Court should not get involved.  Now, I have to go back, rewrite the damn thing while everyone suggests changes to it, try to pass it again, face another chanllenge from Bono, have to go through this entire process again, just so risk the chance of the court once again intervening and killing a good piece of legislation that was passed by the Senate and signed by the President.  If this is a trend, then I am done with this, plain and simple.

[A18]

What is the point to the Senate Powers Amendment if it isn't going to be enforced?

[12th Doctor]

What is the point to the Senate Powers Amendment if it isn't going to be enforced?

Obviously, some one didn't get the memo....

The Supreme Court should step in only when there exists a gross violation of the Constitution, which was not present here.  Had their bee, there would have been no need for their interpritation.  It would have been self-evident.

[A18]

What do you mean by gross violation of the Constitution? Something specifically forbidden?

The whole point to the Senate Powers Amendment is that the Senate can only do things it specifies. It might be a good idea to repeal it, but as long as it's part of the Constitution...shrug...

[John Dibble]

No, but there is such a thing as taking things too seriously, which right now I think you are. This game is supposed to be fun, and as I said, it is a game, so I think you're reading too much into things.

The funny thing is that I think that, by taking this ruling, and overturning the clear will of the Senate, it is you and KEmp who are making this less fun.  And that is what makes me angry more than anything else.  You had to interprit this through your veiw to come to you conclusion.  I say that, unless it is a clear and obvious violation of the Constitution, not just an infered one, which this was not, then the Supreme Court should not get involved.  Now, I have to go back, rewrite the damn thing while everyone suggests changes to it, try to pass it again, face another chanllenge from Bono, have to go through this entire process again, just so risk the chance of the court once again intervening and killing a good piece of legislation that was passed by the Senate and signed by the President.  If this is a trend, then I am done with this, plain and simple.

Supersoulty - this isn't your game, it belongs to everyone. I'm part of the game, and my position is part of the game. You also forget that this game is supposed to mimic politics - in politics, you sometimes lose. It mimics the U.S. government - and sometimes in the U.S. government, the Congress loses to the Supreme Court. That's part of the mechanics of the game. It reminds me of a MMORPG I used to play were people would complain about Player Killers, even though the game was advertised as a game where anyone could kill anyone - this applies here in that you knew the mechanics of the game coming in, and did not complain at the time, but when those mechanics finally work against you you whine about it.

Now, do you think it would be fun for me if every time a bill is proposed that I don't like it got passed? No, of course it wouldn't be - I want to 'win' sometimes. Losing is never fun, but in any game someone always loses. The game is still fun to me even though I might lose on occassion. If you aren't willing to take the risk of losing on occassion, don't play.

[12th Doctor]

No, but there is such a thing as taking things too seriously, which right now I think you are. This game is supposed to be fun, and as I said, it is a game, so I think you're reading too much into things.

The funny thing is that I think that, by taking this ruling, and overturning the clear will of the Senate, it is you and KEmp who are making this less fun.  And that is what makes me angry more than anything else.  You had to interprit this through your veiw to come to you conclusion.  I say that, unless it is a clear and obvious violation of the Constitution, not just an infered one, which this was not, then the Supreme Court should not get involved.  Now, I have to go back, rewrite the damn thing while everyone suggests changes to it, try to pass it again, face another chanllenge from Bono, have to go through this entire process again, just so risk the chance of the court once again intervening and killing a good piece of legislation that was passed by the Senate and signed by the President.  If this is a trend, then I am done with this, plain and simple.

Supersoulty - this isn't your game, it belongs to everyone. I'm part of the game, and my position is part of the game. You also forget that this game is supposed to mimic politics - in politics, you sometimes lose. It mimics the U.S. government - and sometimes in the U.S. government, the Congress loses to the Supreme Court. That's part of the mechanics of the game. It reminds me of a MMORPG I used to play were people would complain about Player Killers, even though the game was advertised as a game where anyone could kill anyone - this applies here in that you knew the mechanics of the game coming in, and did not complain at the time, but when those mechanics finally work against you you whine about it.

Now, do you think it would be fun for me if every time a bill is proposed that I don't like it got passed? No, of course it wouldn't be - I want to 'win' sometimes. Losing is never fun, but in any game someone always loses. The game is still fun to me even though I might lose on occassion. If you aren't willing to take the risk of losing on occassion, don't play.

I agree, this is not my game, nor did I ever say that it was my game.  I agree it is everyone's.  I agree that this is my game and Al's, and Nym's and Gabu's and John Ford's and WMS's.  They all voted for my bill and they all lost, not just me.  And it is not just I who will lose in the future because of my beliefs.  Guys like Al and other who hold similar beliefs to myself will also lose if this continues.

I occures to me that it is you who is thinking of yourself.  I don't care if it is fun for you to sit there and see bills you don't like passed.  It is not your job to approve or disapprove.  You should have known this when you took the possition.  If you want to make a difference, run for the Senate.  The Senate is on the business end of the game, you are not.  It has always been this way until recently.  The Supreme Court deals with matters of elections and civil liberties.  This deals with neither.  That is the way that things have always been, until now.

[John Dibble]

Welcome to the real world - you can't always get what you want.

[Peter]

The Senate is on the business end of the game, you are not.  It has always been this way until recently.  The Supreme Court deals with matters of elections and civil liberties.  This deals with neither.  That is the way that things have always been, until now.

Thats just not true. Fritz v. Ernest established the precedent that allowed the Supreme Court to strike federal laws (in that case the abolition of the death penalty) that were unconstitutional. This power that you think the Court has just acquired has been with them for months.