MA: Mideast Budget Amendment (Passed)

[Talleyrand]

Do my fellow Assemblymen think it is a better idea to set a specific monetary amount, as the bill currently has, or a percentage of GDP, as has been suggested?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Monetary

[tmthforu94]

Monetary makes more sense to me as it allows more short-term spending to help us get out of any situation which may require us to go into the red (disaster, economic collapse, etc) while also ensuring long-term responsibility. To be completely honest, if that's all we have, I'd want it higher than $50 billion.

[ZuWo]

I think a percentage of the GDP makes more sense, considering factors such as the general development of the economy, inflation, deflation etc.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Do my fellow Assemblymen think it is a better idea to set a specific monetary amount, as the bill currently has, or a percentage of GDP, as has been suggested?

A percentage of GDP is probably fairer.

[Gass3268]

Do my fellow Assemblymen think it is a better idea to set a specific monetary amount, as the bill currently has, or a percentage of GDP, as has been suggested?

%GDP

[Talleyrand]

It looks like we have somewhat of a split here, but an Assembly majority in favor of a percentage of GDP as our cap.

Does anyone know what the regional GDP was last year? If these numbers aren't readily available, we could go in and calculate it by adding the GSPs of all our constituent states, and then calculate a reasonable number off of that. I just need to know where one can find that information...

[tmthforu94]

We brought in $305.8 billion for last year. I'd have to do research, but actually I think all of our revenue numbers actually came from 2011. I could be wrong on that.

[Talleyrand]

We brought in $305.8 billion for last year. I'd have to do research, but actually I think all of our revenue numbers actually came from 2011. I could be wrong on that.

Well, my understanding is that the original budget was proposed in 2011, so you're almost certainly right on that. Thanks for the revenue numbers- I wonder if there's a way to extrapolate that to GDP, but I am not sure.

Either way, it looks like a debt cap is the way we're going, right?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If y'all want a GDP percentage, that's fine with me.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Does someone have an amendment?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

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Sponsor: Tmthforu94
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[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Um... you can't just substitute revenue and GDP.  GDP is going to be substantially bigger than revenue.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

If we do this by GDP, we'll have to wait until we have a GM in order to get an estimate of what our GDP currently is so we can come up with a figure.

[Gass3268]

If we do this by GDP, we'll have to wait until we have a GM in order to get an estimate of what our GDP currently is so we can come up with a figure.

Sounds good

[ZuWo]

I agree. Unfortunately the office of GM has been vacant for quite some time now so we just need to wait.

[Mopsus]

If the goal of this bill is to limit the government's long-term debt without tying its hands during times of economic emergency, wouldn't a GDP cap somewhat defeat that purpose, since GDP will necessarily shrink during a recession?

[ZuWo]

If the goal of this bill is to limit the government's long-term debt without tying its hands during times of economic emergency, wouldn't a GDP cap somewhat defeat that purpose, since GDP will necessarily shrink during a recession?

I see what you mean. If, during a recession, the government deems it wise to stimulate the economy with additional expenditures, a GDP cap can indeed be counterproductive. Indeed, in times of a crisis the GDP is lower. As a consequence, the government cannot spend as much money (in raw numbers) as in a situation where the GDP is higher.
I am not a fan of massive government intervention even during a recession, but for someone who wants the government to take drastic measures in times of economic hardship your point is very valid.

[tmthforu94]

Monetary makes more sense to me as it allows more short-term spending to help us get out of any situation which may require us to go into the red (disaster, economic collapse, etc) while also ensuring long-term responsibility. To be completely honest, if that's all we have, I'd want it higher than $50 billion.

^^^

[Talleyrand]

If the goal of this bill is to limit the government's long-term debt without tying its hands during times of economic emergency, wouldn't a GDP cap somewhat defeat that purpose, since GDP will necessarily shrink during a recession?

I see what you mean. If, during a recession, the government deems it wise to stimulate the economy with additional expenditures, a GDP cap can indeed be counterproductive. Indeed, in times of a crisis the GDP is lower. As a consequence, the government cannot spend as much money (in raw numbers) as in a situation where the GDP is higher.
I am not a fan of massive government intervention even during a recession, but for someone who wants the government to take drastic measures in times of economic hardship your point is very valid.

I agree with MOPolitico too, now that I see his point. There's a chance we could have a debt compliant with a GDP cap one year, but in the next, even if our total debt were a smaller amount, it could violate the limit due to lower revenue/a poorer economy. I remember there was big dip in the U.S. GDP a few years ago, so this is definitely a valid case.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I think the original pre-GDP plan was fine, for what it's worth.

[Talleyrand]

I think the original pre-GDP plan was fine, for what it's worth.

Yeah, I'm okay with it too. So are there any more concerns about that?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

I think the original pre-GDP plan was fine, for what it's worth.

I'm signing on with you and Talleyrand on this one as well.

[tmthforu94]

While I may be inclined to support a higher number in RL, I'll go along with $50 billion since this is a game and things go by much slower here than it does in RL.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The following is brought to a final vote.  Members will vote AYE, NAY, or ABSTAIN.  This will be a 48-hour vote.

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