Hillary.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

The favorite of the forum Democrats (and real Democrats to an even greater extent) in 2016 seems to be former First Lady/CarpetbaggerSenator/Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Given her name recognition and the fact that she's admittedly done a good enough job as SoS, this current frontrunner status is natural. A lot could change over four years, but it seems likely that she will be in the public eye of speculation for at least the next two years (if she chooses not to run).

I've made it apparent before, but I do not support Hillary Clinton. Though Obama was at least perceived as a progressive and may yet move a little left in his second term, Clinton seems to be fairly "moderate" on domestic policy. If her husband is any indication (plus, you know, the 2008 campaign), she's at best a centrist and at worst a mainstream European conservative. In an effort to counter the crypto-fascist trend of the Republican Party since Reagan, Democratic politicians including Gary Hart and the Clintons have advocated retaining (or doubling down on) cultural liberalism while moving towards a neoliberal economic position.

Though big money has done a good job hiding it, the new attitude of unrestricted free trade, austerity, deregulation, and privatization has fundamentally failed, yet the Democratic Party has failed to move towards sensible leftism on anything besides same-sex marriage and possibly immigration. Obama is being tarnished as a "socialist" at the bare minimum for being marginally to the left of Bill and Hillary.

I will concede that Hillary Clinton would not really be different from Obama in terms of her policy as hypothetical president. If she's the nominee, I'd probably vote for her, and she'd probably be at least an okay president. So what really got me mad? Her supporters. In the forum, in the media (I could make a second rant about how all the liberal talking heads, even the so-called "progressives", are shilling her as much as possible and failing to talk to any Democrat who isn't also on board), and with most of the Democrats I meet. Every other new topic in the 2016 boards is about her.

When anyone, Democratic, Republican, or Independent, says anything remotely negative, they're faced with a swarm of mindless drones, many of whom probably viscerally opposed Hillary's 2008 run (for good reason). The enthusiasm of their support when Obama's second term has just started really reminds me of the hordes of Ron Paul supporters we thankfully won't have to deal with again.

My advice to the Clintards? Before mindlessly jumping on the bandwagon that the voice on the TV is telling you to jump on, take a good look at Hillary's record in the Senate, her statements during the 2008 campaign (also remember that her campaign was the first to dig up the birther crap). If you're still a Hillary supporter, then at least you have something to back it up with.

[Obamanation]

Cool story bro.

[Simfan34]

no

(and this drivel does not even deserve a period or capitalisation)

[seanNJ9]

The favorite of the forum Democrats (and real Democrats to an even greater extent) in 2016 seems to be former First Lady/CarpetbaggerSenator/Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Given her name recognition and the fact that she's admittedly done a good enough job as SoS, this current frontrunner status is natural. A lot could change over four years, but it seems likely that she will be in the public eye of speculation for at least the next two years (if she chooses not to run).

I've made it apparent before, but I do not support Hillary Clinton. Though Obama was at least perceived as a progressive and may yet move a little left in his second term, Clinton seems to be fairly "moderate" on domestic policy. If her husband is any indication (plus, you know, the 2008 campaign), she's at best a centrist and at worst a mainstream European conservative. In an effort to counter the crypto-fascist trend of the Republican Party since Reagan, Democratic politicians including Gary Hart and the Clintons have advocated retaining (or doubling down on) cultural liberalism while moving towards a neoliberal economic position.

Though big money has done a good job hiding it, the new attitude of unrestricted free trade, austerity, deregulation, and privatization has fundamentally failed, yet the Democratic Party has failed to move towards sensible leftism on anything besides same-sex marriage and possibly immigration. Obama is being tarnished as a "socialist" at the bare minimum for being marginally to the left of Bill and Hillary.

I will concede that Hillary Clinton would not really be different from Obama in terms of her policy as hypothetical president. If she's the nominee, I'd probably vote for her, and she'd probably be at least an okay president. So what really got me mad? Her supporters. In the forum, in the media (I could make a second rant about how all the liberal talking heads, even the so-called "progressives", are shilling her as much as possible and failing to talk to any Democrat who isn't also on board), and with most of the Democrats I meet. Every other new topic in the 2016 boards is about her.

When anyone, Democratic, Republican, or Independent, says anything remotely negative, they're faced with a swarm of mindless drones, many of whom probably viscerally opposed Hillary's 2008 run (for good reason). The enthusiasm of their support when Obama's second term has just started really reminds me of the hordes of Ron Paul supporters we thankfully won't have to deal with again.

My advice to the Clintards? Before mindlessly jumping on the bandwagon that the voice on the TV is telling you to jump on, take a good look at Hillary's record in the Senate, her statements during the 2008 campaign (also remember that her campaign was the first to dig up the birther crap). If you're still a Hillary supporter, then at least you have something to back it up with.

and you just added to it and yes all Clinton supporters are retards thus "Clintards" /sarcasm

[Dereich]

TL;DR

[LastVoter]

TL;DR

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

[DolphMcCrungus]

The man has a point. This forum's support for Hillary is absolutely laughable and out of touch with reality. I genuinely hope she runs in 2016 just to see her fail to get the Democratic nomination yet again.

[BluegrassBlueVote]

Oh, EmoProgs.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

The man has a point. This forum's support for Hillary is absolutely laughable and out of touch with reality. I genuinely hope she runs in 2016 just to see her fail to get the Democratic nomination yet again.

Okay, this post right here has convinced me.  Because, you know, I really hate it when mindless drones tell me who to vote for.

[Peter the Lefty]

I totally agree.  Unfortunately, it seems like almost inevitable that she will be the nominee if she runs.  Quite sad. 

[Blue3]

So what really got me mad? Her supporters. In the forum, in the media (I could make a second rant about how all the liberal talking heads, even the so-called "progressives", are shilling her as much as possible and failing to talk to any Democrat who isn't also on board), and with most of the Democrats I meet. Every other new topic in the 2016 boards is about her.

When anyone, Democratic, Republican, or Independent, says anything remotely negative, they're faced with a swarm of mindless drones, many of whom probably viscerally opposed Hillary's 2008 run (for good reason). The enthusiasm of their support when Obama's second term has just started really reminds me of the hordes of Ron Paul supporters we thankfully won't have to deal with again.

My advice to the Clintards? Before mindlessly jumping on the bandwagon that the voice on the TV is telling you to jump on, take a good look at Hillary's record in the Senate, her statements during the 2008 campaign (also remember that her campaign was the first to dig up the birther crap). If you're still a Hillary supporter, then at least you have something to back it up with.

1. Most people have already done their homework, and know she's the strongest in the field. The Democrats have a weak field in 2016, excluding her. Biden? Cuomo? O'Malley? Warren?

2. Many want history to be made in 2016, and Hillary is ready for it.

3. Hillary Clinton has really redeemed herself in the last 4 years, at least for me. No drama from her, selflessly standing with and serving Obama, hard work as Secretary of State, etc.

4. I also have to say, she seemed too uncomfortable in the 2008 cycle, she didn't seem genuine. Too prepared. Now she seems really comfortable, genuine, confident in herself, saying what she wants, etc.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Looks like I succeeded in angering the hive. This is fun!

[Likely Voter]

Looks like I succeeded in angering the hive. This is fun!

isn't that the definition of trolling?

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

Looks like I succeeded in angering the hive. This is fun!

isn't that the definition of trolling?

My post was then both serious and trolling.

[Blue3]

Looks like I succeeded in angering the hive. This is fun!

I'm not angry...? I responded with logical points. What's your response to them?


Also, here's another reason why she's the huge frontrunner:
https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=166196.0

[McGovern]

The man has a point. This forum's support for Hillary is absolutely laughable and out of touch with reality. I genuinely hope she runs in 2016 just to see her fail to get the Democratic nomination yet again.

Okay, this post right here has convinced me.  Because, you know, I really hate it when mindless drones tell me who to vote for.

Agreed CLINTON '16

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Snowstalker... you are bothered by the Clinton supporters? Boy, try being a Hillaryite in 2008 and dealing with the Obamatards. Ten times worse, especially because it was so clear that Obama would turn out bad.

[Snowstalker Mk. II]

1. Most people have already done their homework, and know she's the strongest in the field. The Democrats have a weak field in 2016, excluding her. Biden? Cuomo? O'Malley? Warren?

2. Many want history to be made in 2016, and Hillary is ready for it.

3. Hillary Clinton has really redeemed herself in the last 4 years, at least for me. No drama from her, selflessly standing with and serving Obama, hard work as Secretary of State, etc.

4. I also have to say, she seemed too uncomfortable in the 2008 cycle, she didn't seem genuine. Too prepared. Now she seems really comfortable, genuine, confident in herself, saying what she wants, etc.

1. Strongest in an election? Sure. But as I said, my concern is ideological. And good job if you really have done your research.

2. Elizabeth Warren or Kirsten Gillibrand wouldn't make history? Even so, I'll support the candidate who will make the best president, no matter their sex or race.

3. I'll give you this.

4. We'll see how the campaign goes if she does choose to run.

[bballrox4717]

I was a Hillary supporter over the president, but I will agree that her 2008 campaign got ugly at times, though you have to remember that she had never really faced true adversity at that time. If there's anything that makes me more excited for a potential run, it's that she learned from her mistakes from the campaign, moved on from her feud from Obama, put the country first and did probably her finest work as SoS. Her growth as a person is what makes us so excited, and it's why Americans aren't so divided on their opinion of her anymore.

[King]

If there's one thing to be learned during this presidency is that the President can only pass the agenda the Congress gives him to sign.  A Hillary landslide will give the Democrats 250 House seats and 60+ Senate seats.

She will sign anything the Congress will pass.  And they will pass everything you want as. Democrat.

[Oakvale]

I pretty much agree with you, actually. The Clintards (thanks for that!) are pretty insufferable.

More to the point, I agree that Hillary is a bad person who would likely be a very bad President.

[Donerail]

Always weird when I agree with Snowstalker politically, but Clinton (and most of her supporters) are awful.

[Liberalrocks]

Snowstalker... you are bothered by the Clinton supporters? Boy, try being a Hillaryite in 2008 and dealing with the Obamatards. Ten times worse, especially because it was so clear that Obama would turn out bad.

THIS, His supporters cheated in many of the caucus states which ran up his margins yielding him more delegates.  I did vote for Obama in 2012 because I agree with his agenda. I am not always confident in his ability to navigate Washington. His presentation of his agenda has always needed improvement, needs to be much more decisive and firm.  I dont think Hillary would have had quite the issues there even if they did attempt to block her as well.

[TNF]

I would support Clinton if she was the only option for keeping the White House in Democratic hands, which doesn't seem likely, supposing that we still have a good field to choose from in 2016 and she doesn't scare away some of the more progressive possibilities.

That said, I basically agree with Snowstalker's reading of Clinton. There's a reason I was for John Edwards and then for Barack Obama in 2008. Clinton is certainly a winning candidate, but I would prefer one that is to her left.

Of course, I'll vote for whomever the D nominee is because the Republicans are insufferable and cannot be trusted in government. But a Hillary nomination would certainly be a roadblock to the evolution of the Democratic Party into a fully progressive party.