Vatican City 2013 papal election

[Dereich]

Has anyone seen any leaks yet of how the early rounds of balloting went down?

[BaldEagle1991]

A lot of my Filipino family members aren't liking this guy.

[Paleobrazilian]

Has anyone seen any leaks yet of how the early rounds of balloting went down?

This may take a few months.

[Middle-aged Europe]

At least it's a better pick than many of the potential alternatives would have been.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

At least it's a better pick than many of the potential alternatives would have been.

By far. I can think of maybe one or two who would have been better and at least a half-dozen who would have been worse.

[Paleobrazilian]

According to the earliest leaks, Cardinal Bergoglio was the leading candidate in the whole conclave.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

According to the earliest leaks, Cardinal Bergoglio was the leading candidate in the whole conclave.

Those cardinals seem to be a gossiping bunch.

[Platypus]

If you're up for a laugh, read up on the history between the new pope and the kirchners, then watch her speech 'welcoming' the news.

[Franknburger]

To me, this Papal election was about three options:

1.) Institutional reform, first of all with respect to the Vatican Bank's governance, and - in a broader sense - the Curia's general management style & system in relation to various scandals. This could have also included a review of priests' celibacy, acknowledging that forbidding marriage increases the risk of priests having non-heterosexual preferences. This option was, among others, preferred by German Cardinals, and probably also quite popular in the North American delegation. Would require a younger, energetic Pope (e.g. Schönborn) to see it through.

2.) Inclusion / outreach: A (mildly) politicised church, sensitised towards poverty, especially in the Third World, advocating peaceful conflict resolution, searching inter-confessional dialogue, etc.  For obvious reasons preferred by many non-Europeans.

3.) Status quo (when considering that Benedict has already acted to some extent in the inclusion / outreach direction, you might even label it 'reaction'): Business as usual for the Curia, under European, preferably Italian leadership. Maybe I am unjust to the man (whom I know little about), but for me Scola signified this option.

The chosen option, namely inclusion / outreach, is obvious. That is first of all positive, because it means that advocates of status quo did not have a majority.

On the other hand, looking at Franciscus,  I wonder how much of institutional reform he will be able and willing to push through. That he was elected so quickly makes me suspect that the status quo faction decided to better give in to the "non-Europeans" than to risk that a real reformer gets elected.  It also sets a nice precedent for Scola - contender gives in, a Pope in his late 70s is elected, dies (or steps down) after a few years, and then it is that contender's turn.

in any case, Franciscus deserves to be given at least the first one hundred days in office before any assessment of his policies is made. A crucial issue will be, whether he maintains Bertone as Secretary, or selects a credible "institutional reformer" cum manager for this position. Only then we will be able to see, whether his election is actually a sign for reform, or just serves as cover-up for continuing business as usual.

[Talleyrand]

2 While most Vaticanists missed Bergoglio, one part-time Vaticanist, part-time political pundit from Brazil called Geraon Camarotti called it right. He said the Brazililian Cardinals not named Scherer would NOT vote for Scherer - Braz de Aviz and Damasceno specially disliked him. They wanted a "Latin-american alternative" to Scherer, and they were not alone. According to Camarotti, the candidacy of Bergoglio was built by Cardinal Maradiaga, a papabile himself. In the end the kingmaker became the Pope, and the papabile was the kingmaker.

What were the major drawbacks wih Scherer which made him so unpalatable to the other Brazilian Cardinals?

[Paleobrazilian]

2 While most Vaticanists missed Bergoglio, one part-time Vaticanist, part-time political pundit from Brazil called Geraon Camarotti called it right. He said the Brazililian Cardinals not named Scherer would NOT vote for Scherer - Braz de Aviz and Damasceno specially disliked him. They wanted a "Latin-american alternative" to Scherer, and they were not alone. According to Camarotti, the candidacy of Bergoglio was built by Cardinal Maradiaga, a papabile himself. In the end the kingmaker became the Pope, and the papabile was the kingmaker.

What were the major drawbacks wih Scherer which made him so unpalatable to the other Brazilian Cardinals?

The fact that he strongly opposes Liberation Theology may be the most important thing. While Latin-american Cardinals are not followers of the Liberation Theology (John Paul II and Benedict XVI would never create a Liberation Theology follower a Cardinal ), most of them actually see it warmly, as they are usually inclined to put emphasis on social justice. Thus, they probably felt Scherer was not the best choice to represent the feelings and the needs of the Latin-american Catholic Church.

Plus, while Scherer delivers a good message, he's not a great messenger. He's a good twitter, but far from a great, charismatic speaker.

Finally, the fact that he was the candidate of many in the Curia probably hurt him. Bergoglio used the right approach, first locked the support from Latin-americans, Africans and Asians, and then, in the middle of the conclave, probably attracted the moderate factions of the Curia and of European residential Cardinals. Getting the support of Bertone before the conclave was probably a minus, getting the support of Bertone during the conclave would be a huge plus.

[Paleobrazilian]

On the other hand, looking at Franciscus,  I wonder how much of institutional reform he will be able and willing to push through. That he was elected so quickly makes me suspect that the status quo faction decided to better give in to the "non-Europeans" than to risk that a real reformer gets elected.  It also sets a nice precedent for Scola - contender gives in, a Pope in his late 70s is elected, dies (or steps down) after a few years, and then it is that contender's turn.

This is a possibility. But I also think this might really be a John XXIII scenario. Many say the 78 year old Cardinal Roncali was elected back in 1958 to start laying out the ground for the Archbishop of Milan, Giovanni Montini, who wasn't even a Cardinal when he was elected. As we know, Montini was created Cardinal just 2 months after John XXIII was elected, and 5 years later he was elected Pope and became Paul VI. By then, John XXIII had already started Council Vatican II, the main legacy of both Popes.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I indeed think that we need to see if Bertone stays in place or not. This will be the key sign. I don't want to get my hopes too high, but maybe...

I'm also really curious to learn the details about the balloting. Depending on how Bergoglio's "winning coalition" was formed, this could give us good indications of his inclinations.

[Franknburger]

Unfortunately, we won't be able this time to produce a voting map

[Antonio the Sixth]

Unfortunately, we won't be able this time to produce a voting map

Well, we could if we knew how each Cardinal voted...

[Paleobrazilian]

Üner-conservative groups like the Society of St. Pius X are already going nut with Francis.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Üner-conservative groups like the Society of St. Pius X are already going nut with Francis.

[Antonio the Sixth]

LOL!

I already know what name he would have chosen: Innocent XIV.

[Famous Mortimer]

I'll never understand why supporting a Latin Mass has remained a caused associated with reactionaries. It's like every in the US where every politician who supports lower taxes opposes abortion rights. These issues have nothing to do with each other.

I'm a hardcore leftist in most regards and I'd love to bring the Latin Mass back.

[Antonio the Sixth]

BTW, did I ever tell you guys that USF is a Jesuit school? Some people here must be celebrating these days.

[MaxQue]

BTW, did I ever tell you guys that USF is a Jesuit school? Some people here must be celebrating these days.

Jesuits, in the gay, liberal, atheist SF?
Impossible.

[Antonio the Sixth]

BTW, did I ever tell you guys that USF is a Jesuit school? Some people here must be celebrating these days.

Jesuits, in the gay, liberal, atheist SF?
Impossible.

Yup, and none of these group as any issue with another. Progressive Catholics are awesome, and I know what I'm talking about, since all my family is.

[MaxQue]

BTW, did I ever tell you guys that USF is a Jesuit school? Some people here must be celebrating these days.

Jesuits, in the gay, liberal, atheist SF?
Impossible.

Yup, and none of these group as any issue with another. Progressive Catholics are awesome, and I know what I'm talking about, since all my family is.

Well, Jesuits aren't progressive Catholics. And I know progressive Catholics are awesome, my family is too.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well, USF apparently was quite conservative back in the 60s... But in a city like modern day San Francisco, it's impossible not to be contaminated by the overwhelming feeling of tolerance and open-mindedness that emanates from the whole city.