Darwin or Lincoln? (user search)
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  Darwin or Lincoln? (search mode)
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Poll
Question: Both men were born on this date in the same year (1809).  Which do you pick?
#1
Charles Darwin
 
#2
Abraham Lincoln
 
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Total Voters: 47

Author Topic: Darwin or Lincoln?  (Read 4813 times)
DemPGH
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« on: February 12, 2013, 09:47:39 PM »

Darwin by a little bit. Made a crucial discovery, and also accumulated evidence to verify it in a way that no one else was really on the brink of doing. Then he revolutionized how we think about life itself.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 09:08:17 AM »
« Edited: February 14, 2013, 09:13:01 AM by DemPGH »

As mentioned before, someone else would have discovered the theory of evolution, but no one else could have done what Abe did.

Interesting. I see it exactly the other way around. Darwin was influenced by Charles Lyell's The Principles of Geology, which was a discovery of geological evidence that suggested that the Earth was much older than previously thought and had gradually changed over extremely long periods of time. Lyell was right. Darwin wondered if that concept could not be extended to include biological life, and he went in search of possible evidence. Of course he found massive amounts of it. No one else was out there as thoroughly and meticulously working on that as he. Now at SOME point someone was likely to discover it, but Darwin saved us time with his invaluable contribution. 

The Civil War, on the other hand, was bound to happen - if it were not for a series of bad presidents who sought to appease the South, it would have happened sooner. By the 1860s the situation had more than reached a boiling point. Abe, let's not forget, was a sort of moderate hero - he went easier on the South than some others would have.

Lincoln; while I believe in evolution, it cannot escape the binds of creation. I respect Darwin, but his theory is unfairly used by atheists. In fact, he was an agnostic.

Evolution most certainly can "escape the binds of creation." Because it's a natural process or law, like Kepler's Law of Harmony, which means that we don't need a "God element" in the equation. It's actually an old argument that if there is a God, there's not much at all for Him / Her / It to do.

On a scaled of 1 to 10, 1 being a creationist and 10 being an atheist, agnostics are around 7.5 or 8 or so. The point being, science uses the material world to explain the material world, not the supernatural / shadow world to explain the material world. In that sense evolution is not misused by atheists.
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DemPGH
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 09:19:40 AM »

As mentioned before, someone else would have discovered the theory of evolution, but no one else could have done what Abe did.

Interesting. I see it exactly the other way around. Darwin was influenced by Charles Lyell's The Principles of Geology, which was a discovery of geological evidence that suggested that the Earth was much older than previously thought and had gradually changed over extremely long periods of time. Lyell was right. Darwin wondered if that concept could not be extended to include biological life, and he went in search of possible evidence. Of course he found massive amounts of it. No one else was out there as thoroughly and meticulously working on that as he. Now at SOME point someone was likely to discover it, but Darwin saved us time with his invaluable contribution. 

On a scaled of 1 to 10, 1 being a creationist and 10 being an atheist, agnostics are around 7.5 or 8 or so. The point being, science uses the material world to explain the material world, not the supernatural / shadow world to explain the material world. In that sense evolution is not misused by atheists.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. Yes, the Civil War was bound to happen, but Abe's "Moderate Heroism" was the right thing to do, and being tougher on them wouldn't let the South re-join.

And I think you're only speaking for yorself, and not all Agnostics in that last part.

Hmm. Well, Agnosticism denies any knowledge of God or that a god exists, nullifying revelation and the content of the religions - it also does not discount such a possibility (that a god exists), so to me that's way closer to atheism than theism, since theism is based upon God contacting in secret certain individuals to whom God revealed, err, instructions, I guess.

I've always said I don't believe in God or gods as contained in the various holy books, but I am open to the possibility of a higher intelligence. 

Lincoln. Darwin's work was a lot more far-reaching, but it is also a lot more easily manipulated to support some truly evil causes. See Hitler's Germany.

Hopefully that's an attempt at, uh, humor. In seriousness, though, I think this view is based upon either a misconception or at very least a misconception on Hitler's part.

Darwin --> Species gradually evolved to present form over millennia
Hitler --> Genocidal maniac 
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