Minimum wage increase from $7.25 to $9.00 per hour

[opebo]

In response to the OP, I do not think the minimum wage should exist. Ensuring individuals have enough resources to meet their most basic needs is in my opinion a responsibility of state when a person does not achieve it on their own. It does not make sense to burden firms with this kind of regulation. I reckon it is better to have a guaranteed minimum income and strong welfare regime.

My fear is that businesses would take advantage of that system by paying their employees an extremely low wage, knowing that it doesn't matter because the government will just write them a check anyway. Which could ultimately be even more expensive than our current system.

Raising the floor for eligible legal survival only continues the Obama/Clinton progressive crippling of the USA - its ability to create the next/new auto, phone, energy, Gov. and food industries that are not legacy indebted. The older goods and services consumed today are heavily weighted with non-producing cost, hence, why I voted to eliminate the minimum wage, once realized, the 40hr work rule will be oblivious to be not good for the cost living also.

Perfect - falling wages is the prime plank of the Republican Party!

Great headline, on the back page, “progressive tax participation revenue falls”; Obamacare has no more money - special needs & preexisting conditions now suspended…
...which is real?

What

This is actually one of his more easily-decipherable posts:
"That would make a great headline. And on the back page: 'Tax Participation, Revenue Fall; Obamacare Special Needs and Pre-existing Conditions Provisions Suspended.'
Which one seems more realistic?"
I'm not sure what that has to do with what you posted, though.

I took t_host1's post to mean strong, almost sycophantic support for what I had just posted.

[bgwah]

The minimum wage in Washington is $9.19. It seems to work fine.

[DC Al Fine]

For the millionth time, non minimum wage plus guaranteed minimum income is the way to go.

[Mopsus]

For the millionth time, non minimum wage plus guaranteed minimum income is the way to go.

I'll copy and paste my response to Redalgo when he proposed the same thing earlier in the thread:
My fear is that businesses would take advantage of that system by paying their employees an extremely low wage, knowing that it doesn't matter because the government will just write them a check anyway. Which could ultimately be even more expensive than our current system.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

For the millionth time, non minimum wage plus guaranteed minimum income is the way to go.

That's a lot more socialist sounding than having a $9.00/h minimum wage.

[TNF]

For the millionth time, non minimum wage plus guaranteed minimum income is the way to go.

I'll copy and paste my response to Redalgo when he proposed the same thing earlier in the thread:
My fear is that businesses would take advantage of that system by paying their employees an extremely low wage, knowing that it doesn't matter because the government will just write them a check anyway. Which could ultimately be even more expensive than our current system.

It's what they do already. The EITC is a MASSIVE subsidy to low-wage employers. A negative income tax or GMI will only encourage low wage employment.

[DC Al Fine]

For the millionth time, non minimum wage plus guaranteed minimum income is the way to go.

That's a lot more socialist sounding than having a $9.00/h minimum wage.

My objection to the minimum wage is based on the economic distortions it creates. Besides, my blue avatar is due to my reactionary social conservatism, not my fiscal views.

[opebo]

For the millionth time, non minimum wage plus guaranteed minimum income is the way to go.

That's a lot more socialist sounding than having a $9.00/h minimum wage.

My objection to the minimum wage is based on the economic distortions it creates.

So why do you propose an alternative (guaranteed minimum income) that is enormously more distorting economically?

[DC Al Fine]

For the millionth time, non minimum wage plus guaranteed minimum income is the way to go.

That's a lot more socialist sounding than having a $9.00/h minimum wage.

My objection to the minimum wage is based on the economic distortions it creates.

So why do you propose an alternative (guaranteed minimum income) that is enormously more distorting economically?

Point taken.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Probably slightly on the side of not enough, however; the transition to that or higher could be just as damaging to the poor and unlike Opebo, I am not out for revenge or something of that sort especially when it comes at the expense of the very people it aims to help.

I probably lean towards supporting the proposal then.

There's no evidence that a higher minimum wage causes unemployment.

Of course there is.  There may be evidence to the contrary as well, but to claim there isn't any evidence for an association is just silly.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Probably slightly on the side of not enough, however; the transition to that or higher could be just as damaging to the poor and unlike Opebo, I am not out for revenge or something of that sort especially when it comes at the expense of the very people it aims to help.

I probably lean towards supporting the proposal then.

There's no evidence that a higher minimum wage causes unemployment.

Of course there is.  There may be evidence to the contrary as well, but to claim there isn't any evidence for an association is just silly.

This is why coming to an informed conclusion on issues like this is near impossible.

[Ban my account ffs!]

A proposal in the MN legislature would raise the minimum wage in the state from $6.15, below the federal minimum, to $9.50/hour.

The local Chamber of Commerce president sent a survey to area businesses asking whether such a rise would impact them.  3/4 of businesses said it would not.  Half of business owners said it would impact the community positively.

It's time to raise the minimum wage.  During the 1960s, the minimum wage was increased numerous times... and the '60s were a decade of prosperity and robust economic growth with low inflation.

When you put more money into the hands of poor workers, it better ables us to take care of those who might lose their job or see their hours reduced as a result in the rise.

[TJ in Oregon]

Probably slightly on the side of not enough, however; the transition to that or higher could be just as damaging to the poor and unlike Opebo, I am not out for revenge or something of that sort especially when it comes at the expense of the very people it aims to help.

I probably lean towards supporting the proposal then.

There's no evidence that a higher minimum wage causes unemployment.

Of course there is.  There may be evidence to the contrary as well, but to claim there isn't any evidence for an association is just silly.

This is why coming to an informed conclusion on issues like this is near impossible.

Particularly as there aren't any test-cases for long-run changes in the real minimum wage in the US.

What we could really use is for two very similar states to enact substantially different minimum wages and watch what happens in each.

[t_host1]

In response to the OP, I do not think the minimum wage should exist. Ensuring individuals have enough resources to meet their most basic needs is in my opinion a responsibility of state when a person does not achieve it on their own. It does not make sense to burden firms with this kind of regulation. I reckon it is better to have a guaranteed minimum income and strong welfare regime.

My fear is that businesses would take advantage of that system by paying their employees an extremely low wage, knowing that it doesn't matter because the government will just write them a check anyway. Which could ultimately be even more expensive than our current system.

Raising the floor for eligible legal survival only continues the Obama/Clinton progressive crippling of the USA - its ability to create the next/new auto, phone, energy, Gov. and food industries that are not legacy indebted. The older goods and services consumed today are heavily weighted with non-producing cost, hence, why I voted to eliminate the minimum wage, once realized, the 40hr work rule will be oblivious to be not good for the cost living also.

Perfect - falling wages is the prime plank of the Republican Party!

Great headline, on the back page, “progressive tax participation revenue falls”; Obamacare has no more money - special needs & preexisting conditions now suspended…
...which is real?

What

This is actually one of his more easily-decipherable posts:
"That would make a great headline. And on the back page: 'Tax Participation, Revenue Fall; Obamacare Special Needs and Pre-existing Conditions Provisions Suspended.'
Which one seems more realistic?"
I'm not sure what that has to do with what you posted, though.

I took t_host1's post to mean strong, almost sycophantic support for what I had just posted.

From a liberal prospective, I thought it was pretty good how taking off the training wheels becomes a time of political hysteria, framed rather well.  Liberal instincts of survival will be hard to overcome that the next growth economy will require.

[Ebowed]

Why in God's name would you pay someone $15 or $20/hour to flip burgers?

I earned $18/hr to do that (US equ. $18.10/hr).

If you don't think that it's worth paying someone a sustainable, living wage to work for your business, why in 'God's' name would you have employees?  Get real, big fella.

[Sbane]

Why in God's name would you pay someone $15 or $20/hour to flip burgers?

I earned $18/hr to do that (US equ. $18.10/hr).

If you don't think that it's worth paying someone a sustainable, living wage to work for your business, why in 'God's' name would you have employees?  Get real, big fella.

But aren't prices in Australia equally as high?

[Ebowed]

Why in God's name would you pay someone $15 or $20/hour to flip burgers?

I earned $18/hr to do that (US equ. $18.10/hr).

If you don't think that it's worth paying someone a sustainable, living wage to work for your business, why in 'God's' name would you have employees?  Get real, big fella.

But aren't prices in Australia equally as high?

If you can show me any people flipping burgers with similarity of location and lifestyle in the US, I'd be happy to move back

In all seriousness, no.  While the cost of living is higher here (especially in my particular instance, with my preference towards alcohol and tobacco, which are taxed according to their public health effects), $18 is above the legal minimum wage and less than what you will get as an adult working for McDonald's.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Probably slightly on the side of not enough, however; the transition to that or higher could be just as damaging to the poor and unlike Opebo, I am not out for revenge or something of that sort especially when it comes at the expense of the very people it aims to help.

I probably lean towards supporting the proposal then.

There's no evidence that a higher minimum wage causes unemployment.

I don't recall saying it did. But I am sure if you jack them up high enough, quickly enough, common sense alone would say that employment would be impacted. Of course I doubt that such a scenario has been tested. I for one, don't want to find out by actually trying it. Which is why I support the proposal.

A proposal in the MN legislature would raise the minimum wage in the state from $6.15, below the federal minimum, to $9.50/hour.

The local Chamber of Commerce president sent a survey to area businesses asking whether such a rise would impact them.  3/4 of businesses said it would not.  Half of business owners said it would impact the community positively.

It's time to raise the minimum wage.  During the 1960s, the minimum wage was increased numerous times... and the '60s were a decade of prosperity and robust economic growth with low inflation.

When you put more money into the hands of poor workers, it better ables us to take care of those who might lose their job or see their hours reduced as a result in the rise.

You mean the state level statute, correct? For some reason I doubt that Minnesota would have a exemption from the federal rate, even if such were possible. Call it a hunch.

And yet it is time. Had it been risen more aggressively in the 2000's, perhaps some things would have been different and we might be at $9.00 by now.

[opebo]

Why in God's name would you pay someone $15 or $20/hour to flip burgers?

I earned $18/hr to do that (US equ. $18.10/hr).

If you don't think that it's worth paying someone a sustainable, living wage to work for your business, why in 'God's' name would you have employees?  Get real, big fella.

But aren't prices in Australia equally as high?

If you can show me any people flipping burgers with similarity of location and lifestyle in the US, I'd be happy to move back

In all seriousness, no.  While the cost of living is higher here (especially in my particular instance, with my preference towards alcohol and tobacco, which are taxed according to their public health effects), $18 is above the legal minimum wage and less than what you will get as an adult working for McDonald's.

This is an important point that many here don't understand - the standard of living, regardless of legal minimum wages is much, much higher in Australia and many European countries than in the United States. The pro-rich anti-worker policies of the Bad Place have had an incredibly pervasive and indisputable destructive effect.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Probably slightly on the side of not enough, however; the transition to that or higher could be just as damaging to the poor and unlike Opebo, I am not out for revenge or something of that sort especially when it comes at the expense of the very people it aims to help.

I probably lean towards supporting the proposal then.

There's no evidence that a higher minimum wage causes unemployment.

I don't recall saying it did. But I am sure if you jack them up high enough, quickly enough, common sense alone would say that employment would be impacted. Of course I doubt that such a scenario has been tested. I for one, don't want to find out by actually trying it. Which is why I support the proposal.

A proposal in the MN legislature would raise the minimum wage in the state from $6.15, below the federal minimum, to $9.50/hour.

The local Chamber of Commerce president sent a survey to area businesses asking whether such a rise would impact them.  3/4 of businesses said it would not.  Half of business owners said it would impact the community positively.

It's time to raise the minimum wage.  During the 1960s, the minimum wage was increased numerous times... and the '60s were a decade of prosperity and robust economic growth with low inflation.

When you put more money into the hands of poor workers, it better ables us to take care of those who might lose their job or see their hours reduced as a result in the rise.

You mean the state level statute, correct? For some reason I doubt that Minnesota would have a exemption from the federal rate, even if such were possible. Call it a hunch.

And yet it is time. Had it been risen more aggressively in the 2000's, perhaps some things would have been different and we might be at $9.00 by now.

Yes.  $6.15 is the state minimum wage.  Only businesses wholly contained within the state are allowed to pay that rate... along with tipped employees, since the federal wage is so low for tipped employees and MN doesn't allow any wage under the state minimum.

This graph is interesting.  If we tied the minimum wage to productivity, we'd be much better off today.


Instead, the right thinks it's alright to pay people less money to do more work.  That a falling standard of living is a-okay as long as profits are high!

[Napoleon]

This graph is interesting.  If we tied the minimum wage to productivity, we'd be much better off today.


Instead, the right thinks it's alright to pay people less money to do more work.  That a falling standard of living is a-okay as long as profits are high!

Its extremely bizarre to hear an argument that basically promotes feudalism, but I think if the Tea Party types had their way then that's where we would be. Economically and culturally feudalist.

[Napoleon]

The problem with Snowguy's analysis is that it assumes that productivity for minimum wage workers tracks overall productivity. There's ample evidence that it doesn't.

The inequity, if it exists in any significant amount, certainly would have grown under Reagan much in the same way Snowguy's data shows. The US created real problems adopting Reaganomics and if we continue to affirm those policies we won't be doing ourselves any favors.

[DC Al Fine]

The problem with Snowguy's analysis is that it assumes that productivity for minimum wage workers tracks overall productivity. There's ample evidence that it doesn't.

Could you link some evidence please?

[opebo]

Graph of the relative income distribution in Australia, Germany, Sweden, Brazil, United States and Thailand.

[Hatman 🍁]

Minimum wage is over $10 here now. One of the few good things the McGuinty government did, although it was the NDP's idea. The minimum wage should be fixed to the poverty line.