Why do you vote against Labor?
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  Why do you vote against Labor?
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Author Topic: Why do you vote against Labor?  (Read 2463 times)
Napoleon
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« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2013, 02:11:05 AM »
« edited: February 21, 2013, 02:15:52 AM by Senator Napoleon »

I get the feeling from many people that they don't trust the Labor Party or they have a problem with actions by certain Labor members.


If there's one thing you learn about this game too quickly, its that you can't trust anyone. I've held many offices around this place but I still feel like I don't know anything that's actually going on. I've really stopped trying. This place would be better off with less drama.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2013, 03:33:43 AM »

I can tell from viewing "Who's Online" that Griffen is preparing a doozer. Tongue Wink
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2013, 04:58:24 AM »
« Edited: February 21, 2013, 05:04:11 AM by Vice-President-Select Griffin »

This thread has much merit because, frankly, there are a lot of personal views about Labor shared by many that I think are either being reinforced by a lack of experience working with a diverse array of members from our party, or are just shallow, typical partisan sentiment. In the case of the latter: that's fine. It's a political simulator, and those feelings are acceptable. Those minds are not going to be changed, and quite frankly I wouldn't want to change them. In regards to the former, though, discussions like these can help resolve some differences.

Labor came from virtually nothing, swelled to become the largest political party nominally for more than four months, and has seen a dip in its share of victories as of late. So has every other party at some point over the past six months. We organized and worked hard to increase our role in Atlasia, and we benefited from it. As a result, other parties decided that they must react to these developments, heralding in a new wave of activity in this game and a Census list that may be close to - if not already - breaking a record.

By being regionally diverse and not clumped together (which, barring one region, lined up that way by chance), we had and still have in most regions an active presence in regional legislatures. Chances are if you are in or were in a regional government in the past six months, you had to work with a Labor coalition to get things done. At one point, we held 8 out of 17 regional seats (2 in each region sans MW), so it's to be expected that some might have had strong ideological opposition to having to work with a through-and-through center-left party.

Still, this brings up an interesting point in that many of you have worked with members of Labor and found us to be perfectly reasonable in regards to governing. The only reason Labor has been as successful as it is in the IDS is due to a coalition of independent and leftist voters outside our party who make it possible. For example, The People and Labor worked together for months in the IDS Legislature, and more often than not, it was our consensus that ended up being the legislation that the Emperor signed. I can't think of one bill of ours (there might be one) that the Emperor vetoed since we have had a 2-member presence. Likewise, in the Mideast, many with both The People and the Liberal Party have worked with Labor; they even had a super-majority coalition in the Mideast Assembly for two months, formed not by national parties, but by regional consensus. The former Chair of the Liberal Party, Scott, has publicly endorsed bore, a dedicated Assemblyman and Labor Party member who works tirelessly in the NE Assembly and wholeheartedly deserves to be sent back for another term. The Liberal-heavy Pacific was on its way to electing fuzzybigfoot as their Governor in a landslide before he suddenly left the forum. he broke all of our hearts

I guess my point is that plenty of people find us reasonable when they get to know us as individuals and not lump us all in as one big, scary monster of sorts. Ideology is ideology and those differences will always exist – and must exist for a healthy game; otherwise, it ends up becoming based on something less suitable. I hope we can continue an open dialogue about our Party, and that it begins a trend for communication by all parties on both their strengths and weaknesses.



If there's one thing you learn about this game too quickly, its that you can't trust anyone. I've held many offices around this place but I still feel like I don't know anything that's actually going on. I've really stopped trying. This place would be better off with less drama.

I quickly came to a similar conclusion, reinforced by the sheer knowledge of the forum.









I can tell from viewing "Who's Online" that Griffen is preparing a doozer. Tongue Wink

I spent half the time trying to find all those GIFs and getting distracted. Tongue Then the forum went down. Sad
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Donerail
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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2013, 06:16:11 AM »

This'll be fun...
Narrowing it down to just one reason: Labor's track record in my region.
You mean saving it from inactivity? Tongue
Trying to disenfranchise people hardly promotes activity.

These are the kind of things that might make me resign from my post and leave the game, even having been newly elected Wink In all seriousness, you're still with the same ill-minded conspirative theories and it seems to be impossible extract the idea from your minds in spite of having discussed this up to the exhaustion.

You have a lot of registered members down here in the South. How many of them are active and contribute ideas for the region? On the other hand, do you like the idea of having political opponents to make the game slightly funny or your idea of the game is having dull and uncontested elections? I think you should consider this question, honestly.

Check Seatown v. IDS and get back to me on that.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2013, 06:46:54 AM »

That reminds me, how is President-elect Cathcon's preparations going for next week? Tongue

As for the Senate seat, you guys face a problem similar to what the right faces in the same contests, though nowhere near as severe. That is why most probably expected Fezzy to win, but it was Nappy who position himself closer to the center then Griff and was able to cobble together a winning coalition together from a diverse range of parties. I mean you could go all Tony Blair and stuff and possibly avoid this in the future, but you have to decided whether that is what the purpose of Labor is or not.

I'd rather this crap be aired out in the fresh air for everybody to see, rather than in the dank, mildewed back alley of PMs

I suddenly found myself transported to a movie taking place at night, with water dripping off a roof and Humphrey Bogart half-in, half-out of a model T holding a tommy gun. Tongue
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Napoleon
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« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2013, 10:48:53 AM »

I mean you could go all Tony Blair and stuff and possibly avoid this in the future, but you have to decided whether that is what the purpose of Labor is or not.


I would argue that's how they ran this time. Marokai/Duke ran to the right of where I was in each of my campaigns, but probably a bit to the left of Polnut/Tmthforu.
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« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2013, 05:20:34 PM »

As a whole I oppose on ideological and moral grounds. On an individual basis it depends on past relationships within the Mideast assembly.
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Velasco
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« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2013, 06:07:07 PM »

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Notice that it was Seatown vs. IDS, not Labor vs. IDS. On the other hand, he was in his right to claim, bearing in mind some formal deficiencies in that election in accordance with the electoral legislation then in force, something that Bacon King noticed with wisdom. By the way, that controversy had the virtue of revitalizing a region that was agonizing in an ocean of tedium, politically speaking.
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Zanas
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« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2013, 06:07:47 PM »

That reminds me, how is President-elect Cathcon's preparations going for next week? Tongue

As for the Senate seat, you guys face a problem similar to what the right faces in the same contests, though nowhere near as severe. That is why most probably expected Fezzy to win, but it was Nappy who position himself closer to the center then Griff and was able to cobble together a winning coalition together from a diverse range of parties. I mean you could go all Tony Blair and stuff and possibly avoid this in the future, but you have to decided whether that is what the purpose of Labor is or not.

I'm with NC Yankee on that one. We obviously just got a President elected, that's not so bad. Plus I don't think our goal is to get a Labor majority in the Senate : this would mean we diluted our ideology so much so that we would be mainstream enough to please everybody. Well I say happily we do not please everybody, cause we have principles and fight for them.
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Donerail
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« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2013, 06:11:08 PM »

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Notice that it was Seatown vs. IDS, not Labor vs. IDS. On the other hand, he was in his right to claim, bearing in mind some formal deficiencies in that election in accordance with the electoral legislation then in force, something that Bacon King noticed with wisdom. By the way, that controversy had the virtue of revitalizing a region that was agonizing in an ocean of tedium, politically speaking.

You also ran Mr. Seatown as your candidate in the recent Senate election against Sen. Yankee. Like it or not, Seatown is the face of Labor in your region.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2013, 06:17:16 PM »

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Notice that it was Seatown vs. IDS, not Labor vs. IDS. On the other hand, he was in his right to claim, bearing in mind some formal deficiencies in that election in accordance with the electoral legislation then in force, something that Bacon King noticed with wisdom. By the way, that controversy had the virtue of revitalizing a region that was agonizing in an ocean of tedium, politically speaking.

You also ran Mr. Seatown as your candidate in the recent Senate election against Sen. Yankee. Like it or not, Seatown is the face of Labor in your region.

It's our region, SJoyce, and that includes you.

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Velasco
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« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2013, 06:18:40 PM »

I'd say Griffin is the face of Labor here, given that he was the first registered member of the party in The South and the most active by far. I think he's not very controversial if you remember that he was voted by people from other parties in the last regional election he ran.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2013, 07:24:34 PM »

Using a Downton Abbey reference just put Griffen up about ten spots in my books. Props.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2013, 07:29:32 PM »

I am not particularly against Labor as a whole (Marokai was my second preference for crying out loud, and while I did not vote for Snowstalker, I did vote for another Laborite in that election), but I think that on an ideological level I prefer Federalists, quite obviously. However, I will vote Labor if they prove to be the candidate that will shows spirit in the game and has proven they can do the job better than anyone else.
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snowguy716
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« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2013, 09:50:19 PM »

I am not particularly against Labor as a whole (Marokai was my second preference for crying out loud, and while I did not vote for Snowstalker, I did vote for another Laborite in that election), but I think that on an ideological level I prefer Federalists, quite obviously. However, I will vote Labor if they prove to be the candidate that will shows spirit in the game and has proven they can do the job better than anyone else.

I appreciate that.  I don't expect your vote... but the fact that you consider it is what I'm trying to get at with this thread.

Zanas:  We have ONE (1) senate seat.  If everybody voted for their party alone, we should/would have 2 or 3 senate seats.  Labor obviously has a problem and has made mistakes which resulted in the loss of clout in the senate.

Sure, we elected a president.  But already there have been comments about how inevitable Marokai's election was going to be.  So I don't see his election as some resounding surprise victory.

And there has already been back room slander about doing everything possible to derail his presidency.

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Napoleon
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« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2013, 09:56:56 PM »
« Edited: February 21, 2013, 09:58:53 PM by Senator Napoleon »


The Liberals are in the same situation.

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God forbid.

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Labor never had many Senate seats at their peak. I think two is the most you've ever had, and one is not far removed from that. The Liberals had six at one point and are down to one. You would have two now if Labor had elected someone who didn't have the least reliable record possible.

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Only two parties have elected Presidents since you were President.


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When was the last time Atlasia had a surprise victory?

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That's sad, but I faced the same thing of course. The presidency sucks.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2013, 10:05:19 PM »

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Labor never had many Senate seats at their peak. I think two is the most you've ever had, and one is not far removed from that. The Liberals had six at one point and are down to one. You would have two now if Labor had elected someone who didn't have the least reliable record possible.

We had three for one month (I think it was in November): Julio, Barnes and Snowstalker (if I recall correctly, Barnes and Snowstalker both won special elections for at-large when there were tons of vacancies popping up; Barnes won re-election one month later for the full term and Snowstalker didn't). For the most part, though, yes, our recent average has been 2.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2013, 10:11:51 PM »

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Labor never had many Senate seats at their peak. I think two is the most you've ever had, and one is not far removed from that. The Liberals had six at one point and are down to one. You would have two now if Labor had elected someone who didn't have the least reliable record possible.

We had three for one month (I think it was in November): Julio, Barnes and Snowstalker (if I recall correctly, Barnes and Snowstalker both won special elections for at-large when there were tons of vacancies popping up; Barnes won re-election one month later for the full term and Snowstalker didn't). For the most part, though, yes, our recent average has been 2.


You did have three for a while, in November and December, but Barnes was never elected in a special election. He won the full term in December, beating out Snowstalker, who won in the special election. Marokai was elected in August, but retired in December for obvious reasons...
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Napoleon
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« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2013, 10:16:23 PM »

Barnes was never elected in a special election.

Thank goodness! I was in the process of making a post...I had hoped I didn't miss that much. I didn't remember Barnes getting elected in a special election but I knew he had been elected in December.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2013, 10:17:20 PM »

We had three for one month (I think it was in November): Julio, Barnes and Snowstalker (if I recall correctly, Barnes and Snowstalker both won special elections for at-large when there were tons of vacancies popping up; Barnes won re-election one month later for the full term and Snowstalker didn't). For the most part, though, yes, our recent average has been 2.


You did have three for a while, in November and December, but Barnes was never elected in a special election. He won the full term in December, beating out Snowstalker, who won in the special election. Marokai was elected in August, but retired in December for obvious reasons...

Ah, yes. There were so many elections at that point, my mind is fuzzy. Tongue So it was Marokai, Julio and Snowstalker, then after the December elections, Barnes and Julio.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2013, 10:19:14 PM »

We had three for one month (I think it was in November): Julio, Barnes and Snowstalker (if I recall correctly, Barnes and Snowstalker both won special elections for at-large when there were tons of vacancies popping up; Barnes won re-election one month later for the full term and Snowstalker didn't). For the most part, though, yes, our recent average has been 2.


You did have three for a while, in November and December, but Barnes was never elected in a special election. He won the full term in December, beating out Snowstalker, who won in the special election. Marokai was elected in August, but retired in December for obvious reasons...

Ah, yes. There were so many elections at that point, my mind is fuzzy. Tongue So it was Marokai, Julio and Snowstalker, then after the December elections, Barnes and Julio.

That was one of those fluke elections where the candidates that won had no chance of getting reelected a few weeks later. We had something similar in March 2012 when a young Alfred Jones and Pingvin were elected in a two-seat special election.
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Napoleon
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« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2013, 02:47:52 AM »

I haven't seen the Left this weak since the last weeks prior to dissolution.
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Dereich
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« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2013, 02:52:15 AM »


This seems like a good time to pull out my crudely-assembled chart:



Don't you mean Snowstalker instead of Julio?
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Napoleon
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« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2013, 02:53:32 AM »

Snowstalker will be joining us for the 54th Senate.
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Dereich
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« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2013, 02:54:40 AM »

Snowstalker will be joining us for the 54th Senate.

Ah. Thanks for the correction.
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