Alcohol Deaths Outnumber Firearm Murders, So Should We Bring Back Prohibition?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 19, 2024, 05:26:52 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Political Debate (Moderator: Torie)
  Alcohol Deaths Outnumber Firearm Murders, So Should We Bring Back Prohibition?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: Alcohol Deaths Outnumber Firearm Murders, So Should We Bring Back Prohibition?  (Read 4170 times)
Napoleon
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,892


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2013, 07:08:14 PM »

ODing on pain killers is not a way to murder someone.
Logged
7,052,770
Harry
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,166
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2013, 11:15:54 PM »

Regardless of the state of any other gun control laws, it's almost certainly going to have to be illegal to 3D-print guns once 3D-printing becomes widespread.

How do you enforce such a law?

I don't know.  I guess all 3D-printing will have to be monitored by the government.
Logged
Paul Kemp
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,230
United States
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2013, 11:35:17 PM »

Regardless of the state of any other gun control laws, it's almost certainly going to have to be illegal to 3D-print guns once 3D-printing becomes widespread.

How do you enforce such a law?

I don't know.  I guess all 3D-printing will have to be monitored by the government.

Sounds like a terrible idea.

The only way I could see it done is for it to be a crime to possess such a homemade weapon, just like sawed-off shotguns, homemade bombs, etc.
Logged
dead0man
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,990
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2013, 07:51:23 AM »

Regardless of the state of any other gun control laws, it's almost certainly going to have to be illegal to 3D-print guns once 3D-printing becomes widespread.

How do you enforce such a law?

I don't know.  I guess all 3D-printing will have to be monitored by the government.
Seriously?

3D printing of things we don't want is coming.  It will be as easy to stop as illegal file sharing has been (meaning it won't be stopped).  You can try and pass authoritarian laws to stop it, but it won't stop it anymore than your authoritarian laws stopped prohibition of drugs like alcohol, coke or weed.  Sure, a nice machine is still $10k and the materials are still lacking in the durability department, but prices always come down, technologies continue to mature.
Logged
7,052,770
Harry
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,166
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2013, 05:20:02 PM »

Regardless of the state of any other gun control laws, it's almost certainly going to have to be illegal to 3D-print guns once 3D-printing becomes widespread.

How do you enforce such a law?

I don't know.  I guess all 3D-printing will have to be monitored by the government.
Seriously?

3D printing of things we don't want is coming.  It will be as easy to stop as illegal file sharing has been (meaning it won't be stopped).  You can try and pass authoritarian laws to stop it, but it won't stop it anymore than your authoritarian laws stopped prohibition of drugs like alcohol, coke or weed.  Sure, a nice machine is still $10k and the materials are still lacking in the durability department, but prices always come down, technologies continue to mature.

All gun laws become irrelevant if you can just print out any kind of gun you want. I agree that the price will come down dramatically, and the quality will come up, probably revolutionizing the world on the level that the printing press did.
I'm open to other ideas -- I'm just not sure what else could possibly work.
Logged
Link
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,426
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2013, 12:15:03 PM »

Alcohol Deaths Outnumber Firearm Murders, So Should We Bring Back Prohibition?

Banning alcohol will not reduce the number of fire arm deaths.  Neither will banning movies, hip hop, or anything else other than guns.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,772


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2013, 12:32:21 PM »

LOL at comparing alcohol deaths and firearm murders.
Logged
Politico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,862
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2013, 03:13:53 PM »
« Edited: March 06, 2013, 03:17:53 PM by Politico »

Alcohol Deaths Outnumber Firearm Murders, So Should We Bring Back Prohibition?

Banning alcohol will not reduce the number of fire arm deaths.  Neither will banning movies, hip hop, or anything else other than guns.

Banning alcohol did not reduce the use of alcohol, so what are you trying to get at?

BTW, are you in favor of disarming the American people in the same way that the Soviets disarmed the Russian people?
Logged
Politico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,862
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2013, 03:16:19 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2013, 03:11:31 AM by Politico »

Of course, the point is that alcohol kills far more people than propelled bullets do. More people commit vehicular manslaughter under the influence of alcohol than the number of people who use a firearm to commit murder. Over 100 people were killed in the Station nightclub fire in 2003, and alcohol was a contributing factor. Do we react to these statistics, to tragedies like the Station nightclub fire, by calling for a ban on alcohol? Of course not.

The point is to bring perspective to an emotional debate.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,891
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2013, 04:05:43 PM »

Why don't you just shut up...
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,772


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2013, 05:50:21 PM »

Oops, I edited Politico's post instead of responding to it, by accident. Sorry.

In any case, it's a combination of comparing apples vs. oranges + cherry-picking statistics.
Logged
Politico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,862
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2013, 03:12:23 AM »
« Edited: March 07, 2013, 03:14:17 AM by Politico »


www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXk2YTXKBFo#t=00m35s
Logged
Politico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,862
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2013, 03:16:29 AM »
« Edited: March 07, 2013, 03:18:24 AM by Politico »

Oops, I edited Politico's post instead of responding to it, by accident. Sorry.

In any case, it's a combination of comparing apples vs. oranges + cherry-picking statistics.

It's about bringing perspective to the national debate on gun control.

No ifs, ands or buts about it: Alcohol kills more people than firearms. In other words, calling for greater regulation of firearms is as absurd as calling for greater regulation on alcohol. Calling for one but not the other is inconsistent no matter how you slice or dice it.
Logged
Link
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,426
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2013, 02:12:36 PM »

Alcohol Deaths Outnumber Firearm Murders, So Should We Bring Back Prohibition?

Banning alcohol will not reduce the number of fire arm deaths.  Neither will banning movies, hip hop, or anything else other than guns.

Banning alcohol did not reduce the use of alcohol, so what are you trying to get at?

That's a lie.  Banning alcohol did reduce the use of alcohol.  What I'm trying to get at is you don't have any idea what you are talking about.  Actually I'm not trying.  I just proved it.

BTW, are you in favor of disarming the American people in the same way that the Soviets disarmed the Russian people?

I'm in favor of disarming citizens in the same way Denmark, Sweden, France, Germany, and any number of other pleasant civilized countries disarmed their citizenry.  If you want to implement Soviet policies that is your choice.  But that doesn't mean we are going to support you.
Logged
Politico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,862
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2013, 01:48:45 AM »
« Edited: March 08, 2013, 01:52:36 AM by Politico »

Alcohol Deaths Outnumber Firearm Murders, So Should We Bring Back Prohibition?

Banning alcohol will not reduce the number of fire arm deaths.  Neither will banning movies, hip hop, or anything else other than guns.

Banning alcohol did not reduce the use of alcohol, so what are you trying to get at?

That's a lie.  Banning alcohol did reduce the use of alcohol.  What I'm trying to get at is you don't have any idea what you are talking about.  Actually I'm not trying.  I just proved it.

The conclusion of a peer-reviewed paper in the American Economic Review:

"Changes in consumption during Prohibition were modest given the change in price. This suggests that legal deterrents had little ef- fect on limiting consumption outside of their effect on price. Social pressure and respect for the law did not go far in reducing consumption during Prohibition."

Source: http://www.tomfeiling.com/archive/AlcoholConsumptionDuringProhibition.pdf

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

So you favor disarming the American people in the exact same way the Soviets disarmed Russians and sought to disarm Americans. Those who seek to burn the second amendment are enemies of the Constitution.
Logged
Link
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,426
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2013, 12:57:15 PM »

Politico from your own cherrypicked article...

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

FYI law enforcement has made several advances since the 1930s.  Also it is a lot easier to ferment alcohol than it is to make a relatively safe (for the operator) gun that is as lethal as an assault style rifle.  Actually there are many examples in nature where fruit spontaneously produces ethanol without human intervention.  Fermentation is a natural process.  Guns don't grow on trees.
Logged
Politico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,862
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2013, 07:28:27 PM »
« Edited: March 11, 2013, 07:39:15 PM by Politico »

Politico from your own cherrypicked article...

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yes, prohibition was associated with consumption declining initially, but it quickly rebounded especially when you account for the dramatic change in price brought about by driving the good into the black market. To re-quote the authors:

"Changes in consumption during Prohibition were modest given the change in price. This suggests that legal deterrents had little effect on limiting consumption outside of their effect on price. Social pressure and respect for the law did not go far in reducing consumption during Prohibition."

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

FYI: America is a free nation, where law-abiding citizens have the right to defend their person and property with the use of privately owned firearms. It is not a Politburo-run state where the government confiscates firearms because YOU are too afraid to own one for your own protection and would prefer to force your choice onto everybody else. People who own firearms are not trying to force you to own a firearm, so why are you trying to impose your choice not to own a firearm onto these people?

The only REAL solution to the problem of gun violence is increased institutionalization of the mentally ill coupled with harsher penalties for possession of a firearm while committing a felony (e.g., add 5-10 years to a sentence if somebody is found guilty of a crime while possessing a firearm; add 10-20 years to a sentence if somebody is found guilty of a crime which included the firing of a gun).

As bad as drunk driving was 30 years ago, we did not react to the problem by banning alcohol and/or vehicles. We imposed harsher penalties. We need to do the same thing to those who MISUSE firearms, not those who simply wish to own firearms for self-defense purposes. We do not take away the choice (American is all about choice!) to drink simply because some drinkers end up committing vehicular manslaughter. The same applies to firearms: We must not take away the right to bear arms simply because some of the 330 million people in the country misuse firearms.

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

What is your point? Producing opiates is a natural process too. Computers don't grow on trees, so should we ban them simply because some people use them to steal identities and exploit children? Of course not. Are you in favor of legalizing only naturally produced goods/services and banning all man-made products/services? Absurd.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.05 seconds with 13 queries.