Moses, Hebrews leaving Egypt, etc. - backed up by other histories?

[color1]

Bryan Woods with pottery has dated the destruction layer of Jericho to be 1400ish. 
   His excavations at Ai (what he believes is the real Ai - fairly close to the site others believe was Ai) and the pottery dates confirmed by finding an Egyptian scarab, I believe validates his pottery dating of 1450 - 1350 bc for the destruction of Jericho and Ai.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

color, practically no other working archeologist accepts what Bryant Woods proposes as the date for the destruction of Jericho IV.  The scientific consensus is quite clear that happened c. 1550 BC.  Further, even if Woods were correct and Jericho were destroyed c. 1400 BC then the events of Exodus, which depicts a weak Egypt with no influence outside the Nile valley, are incompatible with the historical record of a strong Egypt at that time which dominated its neighbors, including the land of Canaan.

The traditional Biblical dates simply cannot be made to correspond with the independently verifiable data from archaeology and history.  Plus there is no need to do so.  The chronology of the Torah clearly uses numbers that are based upon theology and mythology rather than history.  That is also the clear case for Judges where everything is expressed in terms of round forty year gaps between significant events.

Rather than trying to fit an arbitrary chronology to fit both historical and Biblical events, it is far more fruitful to see where Biblical events could correspond to the historical and archaeological record.

[color1]

Amenhotep III built a temple at Soleb and there he mentions the land of shashu of Yhw,
   Scholars date this inscription to around 1400 BC.  The Egyptians knew of the name of the God of Moses (Exodus 3:13-15).  The name YHWH  (Yahweh, from I AM) was disclosed to the Hebrew slaves in Egypt and to Pharaoh and court by Moses and Aaron.
    So we have an Egyptian king acknowledging the existence of a people in Canaan who identified themselves as the people of the God (YHWH) of Moses around 1400 BC.
    This further supports Dr Bryant Woods (expert in Bronze age Canaanite pottery) dating of the destruction of Jericho and Ai around 1400 BC.   The Israelites began the conquest  with Moses and continued with Joshua and expanded their territory in Canaan.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

color, I repeat what I said before, placing the events of Exodus, which depicts a weak Egypt with no influence east of the Nile valley, during the XVIIIth Dynasty, which by all archeological evidence ruled over a strong Egypt with considerable influence in Canaan and beyond makes no sense.

[color1]

Whether Egypt's influence in Canaan was strong or not in Canaan is irrelevant imo.  The evidence shows that a conquest did happen around 1400 BC of Canaan including Jericho, Ai, Hazor from a "new" people.  The Israelites, who worshipped one God - Yahweh, claim that it was them through Moses and Joshua. 
  In Jericho, the jars holding the grains are still full in the burnt out destruction layer -- the conquerors did not plunder the food at all.  Now an invading army needs food to survive.  This shows the account in the Bible.  The invading Israelites destroyed Jericho by fire without plundering the city of its food or valuables.
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  The Egyptians acknowledge the shashu of YHW in Canaan.  Not a state but a people.  Exactly as the Bible states -- these people had no king and they were still trying to establish their land holdings from the indigenous peoples of Canaan.
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   There is evidence of a great disruption in Egypt around this time (after the Exodus and desert sojourn).  A turning from the old Egyptian gods to one god!   One would expect to see such a disruption if the Exodus and the Biblical miracles took place showing that YHW was GREATER than the pantheon of gods of Egypt.
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    I think a new generation of archaelogists will acknowledge the growing evidence of the conquest of Canaan around 1400ish BC by a new people.

[color1]

From 2015:
http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/radiocarbontalk.pdf

(Don't forget to give credit to your sources. - TF)

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Whether Egypt's influence in Canaan was strong or not in Canaan is irrelevant imo.

So whether the Bible is historically accurate is irrelevant whenever it suits you?

   There is evidence of a great disruption in Egypt around this time (after the Exodus and desert sojourn).  A turning from the old Egyptian gods to one god!   One would expect to see such a disruption if the Exodus and the Biblical miracles took place showing that YHW was GREATER than the pantheon of gods of Egypt.

The only evidence of disruption in Egypt at that time was the introduction of Aten worship by Amenhotep IV aka Akhenaten.  Egypt was a strong realm thruout the XVIIIth and XIXth dynasties and thus during that time cannot be when the Exodus happened if the events related therein have any relation to actual history.

Moreover, if one assumes that the Philistines mentioned in Exodus are linked with the Sea Peoples mentioned in the archaeological records, then the events of Exodus could not have occurred earlier than the reign of Rameses III when that Pharaoh claimed to have settled the Sea Peoples in that area. (I think something akin to the Norman Conquest is likely what happened in Philistia as that matches the archaeological record best.) The alternative to the identification of the Sea Peoples with the Philistines is that mention of a strong Philisita in Exodus is an anachronism that is not historically accurate, which would allow for the Exodus events to be placed during the Second Intermediate Era (pre-XVIIIth Dynasty) of Egypt instead of the Third (post XIXth Dynasty).

Given the arbitrariness of dates in Exodus thru Judges, with everything major related in 40 year increments, I see no reason to rigidly cling to its chronology, especially when it makes nonsense of the historical and archaeological record. Better to try and make the flow of events match between the biblical and archaeological records and that simply requires not placing Exodus in the height of New Kingdom Era.

(Note: Technically, the XXth Dynasty is considered part of the New Kingdom Era, but Egypt had weakened to the point that plausibly the events of Exodus might have occurred then, tho it does require a considerable compression of Judges.  It makes better sense for either Exodus to be set in the Second Intermediate Era or to take Exodus as being more mythic than historic in its content which makes the time it occurred in largely irrelevant. The only reason to consider a XXth Dynasty or later Exodus is to preserve the historicity of its mention of the Philistines.)

[color1]

Although this is conjecture, The newly found seal of King Hezekiah has a winged sun as his symbol.  The sun on the seal represented the one true Hebrew God.  Obviously it is an Egyptian symbol  (from Pharaoh Akenaten's days???).  There is a possibility, that Pharaoh Akenaten worshipped YWH and represented him symbolically as the "sun" just as Hezekiah did.
===
  If Queen Nefertiti's tomb is found (in King Tut's tomb), we may find out more.  It's just pure (wild??) conjecture at this point.  But maybe interesting.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

The winged sun iconography is found across the area from Egypt to Mesopotamia. There certainly nothing in its usage that indicates an Egyptian link. The ankhs are similarly widespread. Even if it were evidence of an Egyptian link, as the Bible itself recounts, Hezekiah aligned Judah with Egypt in hopes of escaping Assyrian massage, tho he failed. You're just not good at cherry picking, color1.

[color1]

As an aside, now that the Queen of Sheba  who visited Solomon , because of his fame and wisdom, has been found: http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/archaeologists-discover-tomb-of-biblical-queen-of-sheba/
---
 Interesting that her tomb is adorned with all the things the Bible says she brought to King Solomon. Carbon dating put her at the "time" that the Bible says that Solomon reigned.

[Why]

As an aside, now that the Queen of Sheba  who visited Solomon , because of his fame and wisdom, has been found: http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/archaeologists-discover-tomb-of-biblical-queen-of-sheba/
---
 Interesting that her tomb is adorned with all the things the Bible says she brought to King Solomon. Carbon dating put her at the "time" that the Bible says that Solomon reigned.

Very interesting, thank you

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Letting thousands of slaves escape your country and having your army destroyed in the Red Sea would definitely be something the Egyptians would want to cover up.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

It's backed up by other histories, but the details of the Biblical account haven't been found much yet.  And if you think about it, the Hebrews didn't need to leave any historical artifacts to prove their journey--they were going to leave whatever place they camped in eventually.

[color1]

I'm already getting fatigued with all the coverage on Trump, Cruz,, Kasich day after day after day. And it's  only early April.
--
   From my perspective, Thutmose III was probably the pharoah of the Exodus.  There is a damaged stelle saying that he expelled asiatics from the Goshen area,  he died right near the time that the Bible points to as the time of the Exodus (note that the Red Sea crossing happened LATER than the Exodus).
  Thutmose III, probably the greatest Pharoah of Egypt, witnessed his total army destroyed at the Red Sea.
---
    Avaris was the central city of the Hebrews in Goshen.  The architecture (from Avaris) of their homes were repeated and built by the new people (Joshua's Hebrews) in Canaan.  We have the pottery dating at Jericho, Ai (Khirbet el-Maqatir), LOWER Hazor all pointing to destruction around 1400ish.   The Bible account says they destroyed these 3 areas with fire.
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   We have Egyptian stella identifying  people of YHW in the Caanan/Midian area dating from 1400ish.
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   In Egypt -- a generation later -- we have Akhenaten, Amenhotep IV,  turning to one God and going to the desert to worship this one god - represented by the sun.  In the Bible it says Moses demanded that Pharoah let the Hebrews go to worship their one God
(YHWH - I AM, this is the name that I will be known for all generations and revealed to Moses in the burning bush) in the desert.  And the Hebrews wandered for 40 years in the desert.  Akhanten built his capital in the desert to worship the one God.
---
   From my perspective, there is enough evidence that a massive invasion of Canaan took place around 1400ish by a people who built their homes in the style of those from Avaris of Goshen, who destroyed the cities of Jericho and lower Hazor, and the town/fortess Ai.   Ai must have been small --- doesn't the Biblical account say the people said we only need 3000 soldiers to defeat it? (Of course the Hebrews got routed)
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    These invaders had no King and therefore were identified as a people of YHW who lived in an area of Canaan (identified by the Egyptians)

    In my mind this fits the Biblical account.

[color1]

Departure from topic:  One of the reasons I believe in Moses and the Exodus is because of Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3.
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   Here in writings from over 3,200 years ago: Gen 1:1 says God created a universe of time (going forward) and space (space-time). Today after Albert Einstein, we know that to be true.  In Gen 1:3, God creates light on the first day. Today after James Maxwell,  we know that in this created space-time universe light has a special property.
--
 It "proves" to me that God, not man, inspired the writing of  Genesis and Exodus over 3,200 years ago.

[color1]

One more thing: The Bible says in his created space-time universe, time can only go forward.  Quite a statement of fact from over 2000 years ago.  Even at the quantum (plank scales), this appears true.  Theorists still believe time can go backwards, but the Bible stated over 2000 years ago that it can't.  So stay tuned.  Who's right, today's most brilliant theorists or the words of the Bible written over 2000 year ago.
--- 05/14/16---
   Another interesting aside: The Bible implies that the shape of our space-time universe is flat: it says when God decides to destroy this universe, He will roll it up like a scroll or rug.  Well and unrolled scroll/rug is flat in shape.  It is just an implication.  From what we know today -- the shape of our space-time universe is flat.  Further "proof" to me that the Bible is God-inspired from Gen 1:1 (space-time), time can only go forward, implication space-time universe is flat in shape, to its immense size (declares the glory of God), the the existence of the CMB (Psalm19:1-6) -- declaring  both day and night, everywhere in the universe of its creation.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Actually, theoretical physicists don't believe time can go backwards. What they will do is test their theories to see if their theories call for time to be able to flow backwards because if they indicate that it should be possible, it indicates a probable flaw in the theories.

[color1]

This video is very interesting!

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8f9_k3c4pZQ

    Seal with Jacob's name at Avaris.  And old tomb in Goshen that shows asiatic with multicolored robes coming to Egypt - and labeled God's people.

[color1]

Oh forgot, that video supposed shows slave inscription with early alphabetic writing asking El, the God of the Hebrews to help.  Before Moses revealed the new name of God YHWH to the Hebrews, they knew God as El.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Oh forgot, that video supposed shows slave inscription with early alphabetic writing asking El, the God of the Hebrews to help.  Before Moses revealed the new name of God YHWH to the Hebrews, they knew God as El.

For exactly the same reason we call our god God.  The word "el" in Hebrew and its cognates in other Semitic languages simply means "god".

[color1]

It's in my opinion conclusive: Hebrews and other Asiatics left the Avaris area and settled in Canann 40 years later and built the same style homes they lived in at Avaris.   Nine ring seals found in Avaris with the name of Jacob!!!! Amazing!!!  They (Hebrews and other Asiatics)  cried out to El, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel), during their years of slavery - after being conquered and made slaves by the Egyptian Ahmoses clan.

  I think the Biblical date for the Exodus is 1447 BC plus/minus 3 years (or 1450 - 1444 BC). 

Egypt usually had co-rulers especially when one Pharaoh was old.  So Moses confronted one or both  Pharaohs during the plagues (was it 3 years in duration or 3 months?).

  It seems to me that a great place to find more "evidence" would be the text dump of the tomb builders for Pharaohs and royalty.  These were well educated Egyptian workers who dumped many of their scribbles, communications, love letters in one location.  They lived in one settlement near the Valley of the Kings for many generations including the time the Bible says the plagues happened thru Moses and Aaron.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Obviously the color that is #1 is cherry red given all the cherry-picking of facts you do. The High Chronology you are using to date the end of the reign of Thutmoses III is based upon the assumption that there were no coregencies, yet your theory makes use of coregencies. You ignore the fact that "el" is the common word for "god" in Semitic languages, plus Y-K-B (Jacob) is a common Semitic name element in that era, so tying those particular ring seals to the Biblical Jacob is wishful thinking. Your odd assertion that Egyptian influences in Canaan can only be explained as evidence of the Exodus is also an example of your wishful thinking.

[color1]

Ron Wyatt and others and in 2000 using robotic pictures show that Gulf of Aqaba potential crossing site
   This video is interesting,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnMwW-GAKvA

             Interesting possibility.

 

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Ron Wyatt is the sort even most evangelicals can't find believable. He cherry-picked facts even worse than you do.

[color1]

Another aside: The Bible foretold that the Hebrews would be punished if they did not keep the Sabboth and if they did not refrain from worshipping other gods.  The foretold punishment would be that they would be ripped from the land of Israel (and the land would then have its rest) and they would be dispersed world wide.  We know that this happened.  The Bilble says in the last days, that God would resettle the Hebrews back to the land of Israel and make Jerusalem the capital of Israel again.  This has come true as prophesied.  As far as I know this has only happened with the Hebrews.  Once  a nation is conquered and its people dispersed, they become lost and absorbed by the foreign culture and peoples.  The other major prophecy is that Israel will build the Temple -- this obviously has NOT happened yet.