Moses, Hebrews leaving Egypt, etc. - backed up by other histories?
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  Moses, Hebrews leaving Egypt, etc. - backed up by other histories?
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Author Topic: Moses, Hebrews leaving Egypt, etc. - backed up by other histories?  (Read 34792 times)
color1
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« Reply #125 on: August 21, 2016, 03:01:26 AM »

Religious Cohen Jews trace their family paternal history back to Aaron, the brother of Moses.  According to the Bible, they are the family designated to be priests before God.
--
It is interesting that today, this class of Jews can be traced/identified genetically:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Aaron

"The most recent Molecular phylogenetic research for haplogroup J-M267 places the
Y-chromosomal Aaron within subhaplogroup Z18271 (age estimate 2638-3280 yBP).[1][2]"
----

     I would have expected the upper age range to be closer to 3400 BC instead of 3280.

This direct genetic lineage gives credence for the Exodus and that Moses actually existed.  The religious Cohen Jews have the tradition that they were designated as priests of YHWH during the sojourn in the desert after the Exodus from Egypt.
---
   It appears to me that after 2000 years, preliminary steps are actually being taken to build a third Temple in Jerusalem. Perhaps late 2016 will be seen in the future as the pivotal year.



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color1
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« Reply #126 on: December 09, 2016, 09:19:09 AM »

Archeologist claims reference to Moses found outside of Bible.   Believes Hebrews in Egypt developed 1st alphabet.  If reference to Moses true/verified then quite exciting.

http://phys.org/news/2016-12-archeologist-proof-hebrew-written-alphabet.html
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color1
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« Reply #127 on: December 10, 2016, 10:23:28 AM »

This site has a better description of the claims of translating Joseph, Manassa, Moses,

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/oldest-alphabet-identified-hebrew
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color1
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« Reply #128 on: December 26, 2016, 04:20:15 PM »

Another link with more info: 
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016/12/05/hebrew-may-be-worlds-oldest-alphabet.html

  If other scholars confirm Petrovich's findings, then this is INCREDIBLE and shocking.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #129 on: December 27, 2016, 05:23:34 AM »

Archaeologists were digging for actual proofs for ages now. Just like all the other stories in the Torah, it never happened. None of it makes sense, in any case, even the non-magical parts (an old man leading a whole people out of a local Empire to conquer their ancient country?).
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color1
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« Reply #130 on: December 31, 2016, 05:49:21 PM »
« Edited: January 09, 2017, 07:22:42 AM by color1 »

Parrotguy,  One would expect the empire to erase all mention of Moses and his people from Egypt.  Just look at what they did with Ahkenaten - one of their own Pharaohs.  So the record of Moses, Joseph (names referred to by the Hebrews and the Torah) would be in the Hebrew local dialect.  I think Dr Petrovich will be found to be essentially correct, but it will take 20 years or so.

   The Bible/Torah is supernatural.  The scientific accuracy is supernatiural/incredible.  

Around the time of Moses/Joshua, we see turmoil in Egypt.  The rejection of the pantheon of gods to one god by Ahkentaten, the seeking of treaties with the Nittany Empire in Turkey -- instead of conquest, implying a militarily weakened Egypt.

  Added: 1/8/2017:: Interview with Dr Petrovich.   I think this is a big deal.   PS::Minute 32 of vid discusses Moses.
         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kgN9fgPO14

      I think Rohl identified /Joseph in his book that identified the home and cemetary of Joseph and the Hebrew elders.  "Joseph's" home plan are the houses that the Israelites built in Canaan.  This site is Roway/Avaris/Rameses (same location, but different names in different eras).  And now Petrovich and his translation work.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #131 on: December 31, 2016, 10:58:14 PM »

implying a militarily weakened Egypt.

And yet you consistently try to place Moses into a time period where Egypt was militarily strong.  Egypt was strong in the Eighteenth and Nineteenth Dynasties and we don't have to take the Egyptian word on whether that was so.
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color1
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« Reply #132 on: January 11, 2017, 04:58:35 PM »

I believe that Dr Petrovich's discovery/breakthrough/translations will be as great a breakthru as the "house of David" fragment.  We will see.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #133 on: January 12, 2017, 09:16:15 PM »

I believe that Dr Petrovich's discovery/breakthrough/translations will be as great a breakthru as the "house of David" fragment.  We will see.
I thought you had great hopes for Petrovich's work.  Only those determined to be irrationally skeptical had doubts that a David existed, tho I think it quite rational to hold that the Biblical version of David is exaggerated.  However, the Tel Dan Stele didn't silence the skeptics of the existence of a historical David.
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color1
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« Reply #134 on: January 27, 2017, 08:26:37 AM »

Aside: Supernaturalness/God-inspiredness of the Bible.  In Genesis, the Bible imples that Abraham's children/offshoots will be very important in human history. Sure enough from Jacob's line are the Jews and Christian religions and from Ishmael's line comes Islam.  In Genesis there is this huge gap in human history, then Abraham.
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color1
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« Reply #135 on: February 01, 2017, 07:47:18 AM »
« Edited: February 02, 2017, 07:02:13 AM by color1 »

Aside:The Bible (Old Testament) implies that our Sun is moving vast distances across the universe.

 Science is recently finding this to be true:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/31/world/milky-way-dipole-repeller-space-trnd/index.html

  Mankind didn't know this over 3000 years ago, but of course God did.

2/2/2017: Psalm 19:4-6  "In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun ... like a champion rejoicing to run his course.  It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other; ..."

     We have the genetic marker for the priestly family of Aaron - Moses brother; we have the history/tradition that the priests date directly from Moses/Levitical laws; in the late-20th/early-21st centuries the Bible's scientific accuracy is supernatural (astonishing).
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #136 on: February 03, 2017, 08:20:51 AM »

You do realize that Psalm 19:4-6 are referring to the common yet incorrect presumption that the Sun (and other heavenly bodies) were moving around the Earth.
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color1
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« Reply #137 on: February 03, 2017, 12:26:12 PM »

True Federalist, the Bible definitely says that Earth is a special orb/circle in his created universe.  But it never implies that the sun orbits the Earth.   I'm not sure when that notion came into vogue/doctrine.  The Catholic church by the middle ages definitely preached it.  For most of mankind the universe was a very small space of 6 thousand stars, sun, moon, earth, meterorites, and later a few more planets.

   But of course the Bible said otherwise.   The heavens declare the Glory of God: 6000 stars is pretty small/tiny/tiny glory.  We now know glory of the universe is most likely greater than what we humans can observe of the universe: over 92 billion light-years across.
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color1
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« Reply #138 on: February 03, 2017, 05:19:14 PM »
« Edited: February 05, 2017, 12:34:03 AM by color1 »

Aside, interesting: I always wondered about the water gushing out of the earth during Noah's flood.  Apparently it is POSSIBLE.

https://phys.org/news/2017-02-earth-deep-mantle.html

   PS:  massive amounts of water created with immense pressure build up:: 
""The scientists had expected that the water would form on the surface of the silica, but instead, they were surprised to find that the water remained trapped inside the silica, leading to a massive build up of pressure.
They also believe the release of this pressure could be responsible for triggering earthquakes hundreds of kilometres below the Earth's surface.
The new findings support the experiments on the same reaction between silicon dioxide and liquid hydrogen carried out by Japanese scientists in 2014.
"We were initially surprised to see in-rock reactions, but we then realised that we had explained the puzzling mechanism at the base of earlier Japanese experimental work finding water formation," said Prof English.""
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color1
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« Reply #139 on: February 10, 2017, 03:44:08 AM »
« Edited: February 10, 2017, 08:12:43 PM by color1 »

Audio from ABR site about plagues and exodus:

http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2017/01/24/Digging-for-Truth-Audio-Series-Archaeological-Evidence-for-Moses-and-the-Exodus.aspx

ABR advocates a 1400ish dating for the Exodus.   I personally think that Moses interacted with Thutmose III and with his co-regent Amenhotep II.  But maybe Moses only interacted with    Amenhotep II.  Egypt militarily was at the zenith of its power during the beginning of Amenhotep II's reign. Within 60 years of his reign, we see evidence of turmoil in Egypt as Akhenaten worships one god.

PS:  Amenhotep III, Akenaten's father knew about "Yahweh" -- I AM.  That to me means Moses must have been in Egypt.  Before Moses came to Egypt, the Hebrews knew of God as El and not Yahweh.
    http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2017/01/24/Digging-for-Truth-Audio-Series-Archaeological-Evidence-for-Moses-and-the-Exodus.aspx
 ""An inscription in modern day Sudan contains the oldest known reference to the God of Israel, "Yahweh." Soleb, a temple dedicated to the god Amon-Re, was built by the Pharaoh Amenhotep III in ca. 1400 BC. Today it is located in the nation of Sudan, on the left bank of the Nile about 135 miles south of Wadi-Half""
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color1
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« Reply #140 on: July 18, 2017, 06:20:15 AM »

Aside: The Bible, Gen 1:11, implies that vegetation began on land first before the oceans teamed with living organisms.

                  https://phys.org/news/2017-07-life-sea.html

Hmm very interesting.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #141 on: July 20, 2017, 05:43:04 AM »

Aside: The Bible, Gen 1:11, implies that vegetation began on land first before the oceans teamed with living organisms.

                  https://phys.org/news/2017-07-life-sea.html

Hmm very interesting.
Only if you think single-celled organisms are equivalent to seed-bearing plants and fruit-bearing trees.
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color1
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« Reply #142 on: July 22, 2017, 05:14:23 PM »

they created the oxygen by photosynthesis .  took a while for enough oxygen for trees and seed bearing  vegetation -- probably 3 inches tall (Huh) at first due to low oxygen levels. Single cell life with incredible complicated  ability of photosynthesis.   It seems life existed 4 billion years ago.  Earth was constantly being pulverized by huge asteroids (and a lot of them) -- destroying all life.  God must of had to repeatedly create life on earth over and over and over ...  again.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #143 on: July 22, 2017, 07:24:35 PM »

Good grief, you could at least get the basic science you're mangling correct. Plants don't need oxygen, it's a waste product for them. Beyond that, while it's not at all surprising that stromatolites developed in shallow waters, and they are the earliest know fossil structures, there is evidence for life on our planet from before them.  More on point for your "theory" the cyanobacteria that create stromatolites aren't plants.  Land plants don't even show up in the fossil record until the middle of the Ordovician while animals first appear in the record during the Cryogenian, some 200 million years earlier.

If you're going to insist that the sequence in Genesis 1 is intended as an actual description rather than poetic license, then you're basically left with asserting YEC, rather than evolution of even the theistic variety. The sequence just simply doesn't work unless one assumes literal days.
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color1
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« Reply #144 on: July 23, 2017, 10:18:52 PM »

"Plants make up a kingdom of photosynthetic organisms."   These were the first recorded "plants"  -- the predecessor to multi-cell plants of today.  Due the horrific bombardment lasting into 3.7 billion years ago, that is about as far back that the fossil record can go.  Oxygen levels, life-produced carbon isotopes, and even evolution indicate that life must of existed on planet Earth 4 billion years ago -- during the plastering of Earth by huge chunks - miles in diameter --- asteroids,etc.  The oceans  and any land-base surface water would be vaporized.  In many cases the mantel even melted (therefor any fossil record would be destroyed - melted into oblivion). 
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #145 on: July 23, 2017, 11:02:00 PM »

Plants are photosynthetic, but not all photosynthetic organisms are plants. With even a basic understanding of biology, you'd know that. The cyanobacteria aren't even eukaryotes, let alone plants.
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color1
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« Reply #146 on: August 27, 2017, 08:56:57 AM »

The other issue is without the Creator how does something as organically complicated as photosynthesis come into existence over 4 billion years ago (multiple times as Earths crust is liquefied by Kansas State sized asteroids and smaller) to start oxygenating the Earth. It's one thing to say life started multiple times over 4 billion years ago, but photosynthesis multiple times.
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color1
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« Reply #147 on: December 03, 2017, 03:49:22 AM »
« Edited: December 03, 2017, 04:00:25 AM by color1 »

A bit over 2 hours into video David Rohl identifies destruction of Jericho around 1400ish BC.  He discusses destruction of Hazor and Schechem.  
    (Bryant Wood and his dating of Jericho's destruction to 1400ish BC -- this date correlated by his work at the AI [Khirbet el-Maqatir] destruction site and their finding of a unique scarab dated to 1485 and 1418 BC)
           ""          Formerly, pottery dated roughly to the time of Joshua served as the only evidence that Khirbet el-Maqatir was inhabited during that time period. Discovery of the scarab gives irrefutable evidence of the city’s existence at the time of Joshua. The scarab is a rare type that was made only between the years of 1485 and 1418 B.C. ""
 
   Here is link to David Rohl youtube vid:     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEm-ovpMM5c

    Interesting that Avaris site shows a 'panic' burial and then abandonment. This could indicate the sudden and massive death of the first born of the Passover and the subsequent leaving of the Israelites and others from Avaris (the Exodus).
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #148 on: December 03, 2017, 04:45:35 PM »

The reason for the abandonment of Avaris is well attested.  Ahmose I, founder of the XVIIIth Dynasty kicked out the Hyksos, destroying their capital of Avaris and restoring the capital to Thebes.
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color1
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« Reply #149 on: December 03, 2017, 07:48:29 PM »

The archaeological record confirms that Jericho, Ai, and lower Hazor were indeed destroyed and burned around 1400 BC according to pottery dating.  This is the Joshua conquest.  The archaeological record shows that these invaders built houses that mirror the Semitic homes from Avaris  - the 4 room house style.  So the Exodus from Egypt (Avaris) must have taken place. 

Jericho's destruction around 1400 BC is the key event/date. 

The Jericho destruction layer shows scorched grain pots full.  This shows that the conquest of Jericho was fast and shows that attacking conquers burned the city without hording it's food/grain.  That is amazing (to  me) in itself -- an army  needs food to fight. Also the upper walls of Jericho did indeed tumble down allowing the invaders to walk up into the city and over the lower walls. 

  We also see that Akanaten's father (Pharaoh) refer to the people of YAHWEH,  The Semitics at Avaris  referred to God as EL.  The Bible says God gave Moses the name He would be known for all generations as YAHWEH and God sent Moses to tell Pharaoh and His people in Goshen (Israelites) that   YAHWEH had sent Moses to deliver them.  So this proves that the name of God of the Israelites had changed from EL to YAHWEH and that the Egyptian Pharaoh knew about this. 

   The 10 plagues in Egypt have to taken by faith, but the Exodus and conquest do not.   
There is no reason to doubt the Biblical description of Joshua's conquest or the period of the Judges where the Jews are portrayed as deserting YAHWEH by the second generation after Joshua  and being subjugated by a number of other neighboring nations.
    Why assume that it was rewritten.  Who is dumb enough to rewrite that the chosen people deserted God and were conquered by their neighbors.
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