Hugo Chavez has died

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Burn in hell, thug.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

If you can't say anything nice in the minutes after someone's death, stfu. Seriously trashy. I'm not a Chavez fanboy by any strecth, but have some basic respect for human dignity.

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Back on topic.

The man was a dictator. For God's sake, he tried to overthrow the government to get a hold on the power he so desperately craved. He had people killed, he restricted human rights, and while yes, living conditions improved under him, one has to ask at what cost. I know comparing him to Hitler is hyperbole, but did Hitler not improve Germany's roads? It is the same basic argument.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

If you can't say anything nice in the minutes after someone's death, stfu. Seriously trashy. I'm not a Chavez fanboy by any strecth, but have some basic respect for human dignity.

-----------

Back on topic.

The man was a dictator. He had people killed, he restricted human rights, and while yes, living conditions improved under him, one has to ask at what cost.

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

He is not sending in tanks to Tiananmen Square, but the man was no hero. He funded FARC, the terrorist group that has lead to thousands of deaths in its war against Columbia.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

If you can't say anything nice in the minutes after someone's death, stfu. Seriously trashy. I'm not a Chavez fanboy by any strecth, but have some basic respect for human dignity.

-----------

Back on topic.

The man was a dictator. He had people killed, he restricted human rights, and while yes, living conditions improved under him, one has to ask at what cost. I know comparing him to Hitler is hyberpole, but did Hitler not improve Germany's roads? It is the same basic argument.

Like most Americans, you would do well to read a (non-biased) account of Venezuelan history prior to Chavismo. It would help you develop a more critical appreciation of his presidency, and the good and bad aspects of it; as well as place it in much needed historical context. Until you do, please restrain from repeating the typical right-wing lies and blabber on the topic.

And don't even get me started on the irony and double standards in the American right's attitude towards Chavez and other leaders of his genre.

I have read a good amount of Venezuela. It was never a nice place before Chavez, as was Cuba before Castro. I am not ignoring the past dictators who ruled it. It could be argued that Chavez was one of the more tame tyrants/strongmen. Pinochet takes the cake among Latin American dictators, but according to those on the left, Libertarians apparently “admire” him. Thugs are thugs, and South America has suffered more than its fair share of right wing dictators (Pinochet, Somoza, Batista, Trujillo, and Stroessner come to mind), as well as the illegal overthrow of the Honduran government in 2009.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I would like to add, that to those here calling Chavez's opponents "trashy", there was a thread called "Were gonna have a party when Thatcher dies." I know for a fact that half of you would celebrate the death of Dick Cheney, who was just as evil during his time in office, if not more evil, than Chavez ever was. So please, get a little bit of consistency in your hypocritical minds.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Also, as hash just put it:

"I would have more respect for right-wingers if they were upfront about their reasons for hating certain foreign leaders; like "Chavez didn't let American businessmen run the country."

The reason the Palins, Becks, O'Reillys, and Bushes of the world hate him is because he nationalized oil. That is there reason, and the media’s reason. I oppose him for his funding of FARC, and as Snowstalker flatly put it out, his disregard for civil liberties.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Hypocrites, all of you.

I would like to add, that to those here calling Chavez's opponents "trashy", there was a thread called "Were gonna have a party when Thatcher dies." I know for a fact that half of you would celebrate the death of Dick Cheney, who was just as evil during his time in office, if not more evil, than Chavez ever was. So please, get a little bit of consistency in your hypocritical minds.

Aaaah, "some of you are assholes so I have to be an asshole too" mentality.

It's not surprising that there are vast segments of the British population eagerly awaiting this horrible woman's death.

It's not surprising that there are vast segments of the British population eagerly awaiting this horrible woman's death.

Oh don't be ridiculous.

I think you are being ridiculous, who really doesn't want Thatcher to die, if you think about the negative effect she had on the islands.

It's not surprising that there are vast segments of the British population eagerly awaiting this horrible woman's death.

Oh don't be ridiculous.

You clearly know loads about the UK. It's true that a large portion of the country hold nothing but resentment for her because of the damage she did to swathes of the UK.

"We're havin' a party when Thatcher dies" is a common football chant, for example.

No one is calling for her to be shot; no one (well, except the Provos) wanted that in the 1980s either. It's just that a lot of people will be satisfied at her passing. I suppose that might come across as a little ugly (and if I'm being honest it sort of is) but you have to understand that it is a reaction to something that was also rather ugly.

She defined large sections of British society as enemies - personal enemies - and shaped policies accordingly. If you do that, then you don't get to expect those same people to show even a basic level of respect. The political is personal sometimes...

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

He is not sending in tanks to Tiananmen Square, but the man was no hero. He funded FARC, the terrorist group that has lead to thousands of deaths in its war against Columbia.

You know that the FARC was active, alive and kicking in Colombia decades prior to Chavez. Do you want to make the man who has died guilty of all the dead in the neighbouring country? Do you know something about narcos, paracas and other lovely Colombian gentlemen? Come on, it's not the moment for the "Chavez is Evil" time. Watch Fox News if you want that kind of primary and biased stuff. By the way, I'll never claim that the man was a hero, but certainly he was democratically elected, like it or not. And, as some people is trying to tell you, not all his record is so bad.

FARC has been around since the 1950s. That is common knowledge. Quit talking down to me; I am not another Palin-Beck rightwinger.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Thatcher and Chavez really aren't comparable at all, sorry guy.

Your a horrible person, you know that right?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

He is not sending in tanks to Tiananmen Square, but the man was no hero. He funded FARC, the terrorist group that has lead to thousands of deaths in its war against Columbia.

You know that the FARC was active, alive and kicking in Colombia decades prior to Chavez. Do you want to make the man who has died guilty of all the dead in the neighbouring country? Do you know something about narcos, paracas and other lovely Colombian gentlemen? Come on, it's not the moment for the "Chavez is Evil" time. Watch Fox News if you want that kind of primary and biased stuff. By the way, I'll never claim that the man was a hero, but certainly he was democratically elected, like it or not. And, as some people is trying to tell you, not all his record is so bad.

FARC has been around since the 1950s. That is common knowledge. Quit talking down to me; I am not another Palin-Beck rightwinger.

If you're not, you really should quit acting like one (and show basic human dignity).

Human dignity is for those who deserve it; human dignity is reserved for respectable leaders, like Lula in Brazil, or the late Jack Layton.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Thatcher and Chavez really aren't comparable at all, sorry guy.

Your a horrible person, you know that right?

That may be, but my point still stands. Chavez nationalized oil companies and took a lit bit of the wealth from the richest strata of Venezuelan society to redistribute to those in extreme poverty. Thatcher destroyed and economically devastated entire communities across northern England in an ideological crusade.

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

He is not sending in tanks to Tiananmen Square, but the man was no hero. He funded FARC, the terrorist group that has lead to thousands of deaths in its war against Columbia.

You know that the FARC was active, alive and kicking in Colombia decades prior to Chavez. Do you want to make the man who has died guilty of all the dead in the neighbouring country? Do you know something about narcos, paracas and other lovely Colombian gentlemen? Come on, it's not the moment for the "Chavez is Evil" time. Watch Fox News if you want that kind of primary and biased stuff. By the way, I'll never claim that the man was a hero, but certainly he was democratically elected, like it or not. And, as some people is trying to tell you, not all his record is so bad.

FARC has been around since the 1950s. That is common knowledge. Quit talking down to me; I am not another Palin-Beck rightwinger.

If you're not, you really should quit acting like one (and show basic human dignity).

Human dignity is for those who deserve it; human dignity is reserved for respectable leaders, like Lula in Brazil.

Lula is a big fan of Chavez and would certainly disagree with you that he is not deserving of respect.

Thatcher may or may have not been the best leader, but she did not abuse human rights and disregard civil liberties. You are missing my point. Lula was a leftist, and a fan of Chavez. But Lula was not a thug.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

My, the replies do come in. Those who know of me will damn well know how I feel about him.

But first:

If you can't say anything nice in the minutes after someone's death, stfu. Seriously trashy. I'm not a Chavez fanboy by any strecth, but have some basic respect for human dignity.

Did you and yours do so when Jerry Falwell died, Hugh? Just wondering...

I would like to add, that to those here calling Chavez's opponents "trashy", there was a thread called "Were gonna have a party when Thatcher dies." I know for a fact that half of you would celebrate the death of Dick Cheney, who was just as evil during his time in office, if not more evil, than Chavez ever was. So please, get a little bit of consistency in your hypocritical minds.

Quoted for truth. But don't interfere with the usual liberal circle-jerk that goes on on this forum

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

My, lefties take a seriously revisionist approach to the history of April 11, 2002, don't you?

Here's a hint: the Chavistas fired first.

Want my source for it, Hashemite? Perhaps you can come down off your pedestal and consider a point of view which isn't blindly pro-Chavez...

The Silence and the Scorpion: The Coup Against Chavez and the Making of Modern Venezuela, by Brian A. Nelson. I've actually met the guy - he is not even remotely one of those 'American right-wingers' you liberals trot out when you're defending leftie tyrants. He actually was pro-Chavez when he began his research on the 2002 coup, but when he discovered the facts, well, not so much.

I don't expect to convince a single person, but I so despise the adulation of Chavez by the left that the hell with it, while I don't revel in a creature's death, I won't shed tears for the fall of a tyrant, either. You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

It is only fair to say that the 2002 coup was just as ammoral on the part of the USA as anything Chavez did in his nation.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

Yes, I remember all the forum lefties who mourned Kim Jong Il after he died.

Agreed, and Kim Jong Ill deserved ten fold the hate that Chavez received. That makes Chavez no better a person however.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Chavez was no better a leader than Kim Jong-il? wtf

No better of a person, I should add. I apologize for not finishing my post. No, Kim was much, much more evil.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You lot are so anti-American that you'll forgive anything for someone who OPPOSES THE EVIL AMERICANS!!!

Yes, I remember all the forum lefties who mourned Kim Jong Il after he died.

Cherry-picking a point, Lief? You're so nuts you actually support Bashar al-Assad. Kim Jong Il was such an extreme example that that doesn't say anything - in the case of Chavez, his anti-Americanism is exactly why you liked him!

Ugh, I agree with you for the most part, but I have never seen Lief defend al-Assad nor say anything anti-American.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Thatcher and Chavez really aren't comparable at all, sorry guy.

Your a horrible person, you know that right?

That may be, but my point still stands. Chavez nationalized oil companies and took a lit bit of the wealth from the richest strata of Venezuelan society to redistribute to those in extreme poverty. Thatcher destroyed and economically devastated entire communities across northern England in an ideological crusade.

LOL. I've never heard of people killed by Chavez regime. It seems that the propaganda machine works well.

He is not sending in tanks to Tiananmen Square, but the man was no hero. He funded FARC, the terrorist group that has lead to thousands of deaths in its war against Columbia.

You know that the FARC was active, alive and kicking in Colombia decades prior to Chavez. Do you want to make the man who has died guilty of all the dead in the neighbouring country? Do you know something about narcos, paracas and other lovely Colombian gentlemen? Come on, it's not the moment for the "Chavez is Evil" time. Watch Fox News if you want that kind of primary and biased stuff. By the way, I'll never claim that the man was a hero, but certainly he was democratically elected, like it or not. And, as some people is trying to tell you, not all his record is so bad.

FARC has been around since the 1950s. That is common knowledge. Quit talking down to me; I am not another Palin-Beck rightwinger.

If you're not, you really should quit acting like one (and show basic human dignity).

Human dignity is for those who deserve it; human dignity is reserved for respectable leaders, like Lula in Brazil.

Lula is a big fan of Chavez and would certainly disagree with you that he is not deserving of respect.

Thatcher may or may have not been the best leader, but she did not abuse human rights and disregard civil liberties. You are missing my point. Lula was a leftist, and a fan of Chavez. But Lula was not a thug.

Remember the miners strike...

That is debatable; something Hugo Chavez's human rights record is not.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

And hopefully his oppressive, undemocratic regime shall die with him.

By the looks of the new President, Chef Boyardee Diosdado Cabello things will remain the same for the next 30 days at least. Hopefully Caprilles gets in. Doubtful, however.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

And hopefully his oppressive, undemocratic regime shall die with him.

Yes, winning 13 out of 14 elections during his presidency is very undemocratic. Hopefully the heroic lovers of democracy that attempted to overthrow him in a coup will now replace him.

Properly, would the quotes go around 'winning' or 'elections'?

When you live in a country as blighted as Venezuela, the option to vote to confiscate the Gringo's stuff is attractive.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

If you can't say anything nice in the minutes after someone's death, stfu. Seriously trashy. I'm not a Chavez fanboy by any strecth, but have some basic respect for human dignity.

The rules of dignity on this forum? I reiterate my earlier post.

Hypocrites, all of you.

I would like to add, that to those here calling Chavez's opponents "trashy", there was a thread called "Were gonna have a party when Thatcher dies." I know for a fact that half of you would celebrate the death of Dick Cheney, who was just as evil during his time in office, if not more evil, than Chavez ever was. So please, get a little bit of consistency in your hypocritical minds.

Aaaah, "some of you are assholes so I have to be an asshole too" mentality.

It's not surprising that there are vast segments of the British population eagerly awaiting this horrible woman's death.

It's not surprising that there are vast segments of the British population eagerly awaiting this horrible woman's death.

Oh don't be ridiculous.

I think you are being ridiculous, who really doesn't want Thatcher to die, if you think about the negative effect she had on the islands.

It's not surprising that there are vast segments of the British population eagerly awaiting this horrible woman's death.

Oh don't be ridiculous.

You clearly know loads about the UK. It's true that a large portion of the country hold nothing but resentment for her because of the damage she did to swathes of the UK.

"We're havin' a party when Thatcher dies" is a common football chant, for example.

No one is calling for her to be shot; no one (well, except the Provos) wanted that in the 1980s either. It's just that a lot of people will be satisfied at her passing. I suppose that might come across as a little ugly (and if I'm being honest it sort of is) but you have to understand that it is a reaction to something that was also rather ugly.

She defined large sections of British society as enemies - personal enemies - and shaped policies accordingly. If you do that, then you don't get to expect those same people to show even a basic level of respect. The political is personal sometimes...

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

The right-wing nonsense on this thread is disgustingly nauseating.

RIP.

Did you read my above post. What I found on Thatcher here is nauseating, not a thug like Chavez.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Regarding Sanchez's hypocrisy accusations: sure, there are people I won't drop a tear when they die. Yet I find it despicable to go on a gloating "yay, bastard is dead" spree just freaking minutes after learning about this. You can't help it? Do it in private. I can't speak for the others, but I never go that low. You're entitled to your opinion, there will be plenty occasions to discuss Chavez in near future, but have some ing decency. Defense like "others do the same" is lame. You're supposed to be better than a mindless crowd.

Grow up, kid. I mean it sincerely.

Grow up? He was a thug. His death should be celebrated immediately. It is not a low thing to do. He does not deserve decency. How many more times do I have to express that! Quit the phony outrage, Kal. Others do it, and yet here they are calling me out. Why don’t you join me in criticizing them instead of placing me in the “mindless crowd.” Chavez was not a respectable foreign leader/political figure, like Lula, Kirchner, or Jack Layton. He was a despotic pissant who used brutal force to implement a political agenda. His political views are debatable-it is the means he used to implement them that was wrong.

Regarding Sanchez's hypocrisy accusations: sure, there are people I won't drop a tear when they die. Yet I find it despicable to go on a gloating "yay, bastard is dead" spree just freaking minutes after learning about this. You can't help it? Do it in private. I can't speak for the others, but I never go that low. You're entitled to your opinion, there will be plenty occasions to discuss Chavez in near future, but have some ing decency. Defense like "others do the same" is lame. You're supposed to be better than a mindless crowd.

Grow up, kid. I mean it sincerely.

This.

I honestly don't think any leftist (apart from the usual trolls) will cheer when Thatcher dies.

Plenty of people in Scotland and England (and Ireland and Argentina...) will cheer when Thatcher dies.

Do I have to post for a third time the post in which leftist members of this forum are already cheering for her ill health and death.

You are all hypocrites. Just own up to the fact that you ignore thugs when they are your side, and not when they are on your opponent’s side. Pinochet, Chavez, Castro, Franco, King Abdullah-it does not matter. A thug is a thug. You are the ones who should grow up. It is embarrassing and pathetic for you all to defend Chavez while at the same time attack other foreign leaders who are at least democratically elected.

Should I bring up the Jerry Fallwell thread? It was not “too soon” to make negative comments about a negative man when he died.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Naive and self-righteous 16 year-old is naive and self-righteous.

Look who is talking. You cannot deny the fact that Chavez was a strongman and a wannabe tyrant so you have to insult me. What are you other weak debating tactics? Please enlighten me with your infinity wisdom, oh wise Obamanation.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Yes, smelling the sulfur from the devil Bush at the U.N. was one of my favorites.

You consider this hyperbole?

Bush maybe. Rummy or Cheney? Not so much.

Everyone over here thinks - as a matter of course - that the CIA killed him.  Such thinking is just normal outside the USA.

I wouldn't be surprised. It is not the first time the CIA has taken out a foreign leader for nationalizing oil.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You are all hypocrites. Just own up to the fact that you ignore thugs when they are your side, and not when they are on your opponent’s side. Pinochet, Chavez, Castro, Franco, King Abdullah-it does not matter. A thug is a thug.

I don't really want to get into an extensive argument here but people would probably start taking your comments seriously if you just didn't compare Chavez with Pinochet, Castro, Franco and King Abdullah which is frankly ridiculous.

1st Tier Tyrants: Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Ill Sung, etc.

2nd Tier Tyrants: Al-Assad, Qadaffi, Pinochet, Castro, Franco, King Abdullah, King Leopold.

That is my general rankings of tyrants. Chavez is the least bad among the 2nd tier, so it is not that far of a stretch to compare him to them.