2013 Early Venezuela Presidential Election

[Old Man Svensson]

Capriles calling for a full recount.

Good. No matter what you think of Chavist policy, these "results" are a sham, pure and simple.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Capriles calling for a full recount.

No doubt Republicans on this thread will suddenly be for recounts.

[© tweed]

I have a strong hatred, angry streak, "anger management issues", for the liberals who want a return to everything, that they won't see:

[Bacon King]

Capriles claiming his people's count is off by 300,000 from the government's count.

[© tweed]

Capriles claiming his people's count is off by 300,000 from the government's count.

good, shoot him, let him get his Masters at Harvard right with the blood dripping off his shoulder and arm.

[LastVoter]

Given how close this is, this may turn out nasty.

I sure hope Capriles doesn't go down without a fact.

Until today, Venezuela was a flawed democracy. Now it's officially become a sham democracy.

Like Florida 2000?

Leave. Now.

Congratulations, Phil.

[ag]

It's not likely a reocount will do anything. Even if they added a million Maduro votes to the count at the last moemnt, you'd have to have it recognized by the chavista courts. Ain't happening.

The main objective should be to try to trade the recount calls for concessions on how the elections and the judiciary are run.

[Old Man Svensson]

Capriles calling for a full recount.

No doubt Republicans on this thread will suddenly be for recounts.

And the Democrats. Stop being a ridiculous leftist strawman.

[© tweed]

Given how close this is, this may turn out nasty.

I sure hope Capriles doesn't go down without a fight.

Until today, Venezuela was a flawed democracy. Now it's officially become a sham democracy.

you are nothing, you are a flawed nothing, understand nothing but two or three precepts, you think you learned them but didn't, thought that by not learning you learned, but you didn't, you didn't at all, you became the void within the void, the void maintaining the void.  WORDS are NOTHING, words that justify words are further than nothing, stand before the throne and take the knife in your back, your sophistry within the NOTHING of the NOTHING will earn you NOTHING, and NOTHING again.

[© tweed]

Even if they added a million Maduro votes to the count at the last moemnt, you'd have to have it recognized by the chavista courts

yes, you had it, had them, had them all for 400 years, and now you DON'T!  play your words upon words, there are better artists than you, my dear,

[Хahar 🤔]

caída del sistema

[Ban my account ffs!]

Even if they added a million Maduro votes to the count at the last moemnt, you'd have to have it recognized by the chavista courts

yes, you had it, had them, had them all for 400 years, and now you DON'T!  play your words upon words, there are better artists than you, my dear,

Dude, take your seroquel and simmer the hell down.

[Tender Branson]

Way closer than I thought ...

But really, like Florida in 2000 ?

Venezuela's elections yesterday are not nearly as much of a joke as those of FL in 2000.

[ag]

Even if they added a million Maduro votes to the count at the last moemnt, you'd have to have it recognized by the chavista courts

yes, you had it, had them, had them all for 400 years, and now you DON'T!  play your words upon words, there are better artists than you, my dear,

No lo entiendo.

[ag]

Way closer than I thought ...

But really, like Florida in 2000 ?

Venezuela's elections yesterday are not nearly as much of a joke as those of FL in 2000.

Do you have ANY doubt that, had Al Gore been winning by a margin of, say, 20,000 votes, his victory would have been recognized?

Do you have ANY doubt, that had Capriles been winning by a margin of 200,000 vote, his victory would have been recognized?

That's the difference, really.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Shut up Tweed.

[Franzl]

Way closer than I thought ...

But really, like Florida in 2000 ?

Venezuela's elections yesterday are not nearly as much of a joke as those of FL in 2000.

This is just plain wrong.

[MaxQue]

Well, I don't see why everyone is so persuaded than there was fraud.

It's quite possible, I would even it's likely, but I wouldn't dare to affirm it's sure at 100%

Process is flawed and has to be fixed, for sure. Involvement of the army worries me, yes. But I wouldn't make a call on the legitimacy right now. I would wait than more elements are avaliable to reach a fully enlightened decision, not just using first impressions.

It may sound ridiculous, but, we work that way in science, and I think the approach is worthwhile in other domains, too.

[© tweed]

Do you have ANY doubt, that had Capriles been winning by a margin of 200,000 vote, his victory would have been recognized?

quite on the contra, there is no chance that a 1-2% Maduro victory will be recognized, in the international, (which think they run the show).

[LastVoter]

Well, I don't see why everyone is so persuaded than there was fraud.

It's quite possible, I would even it's likely, but I wouldn't dare to affirm it's sure at 100%

Process is flawed and has to be fixed, for sure. Involvement of the army worries me, yes. But I wouldn't make a call on the legitimacy right now. I would wait than more elements are avaliable to reach a fully enlightened decision, not just using first impressions.

It may sound ridiculous, but, we work that way in science, and I think the approach is worthwhile in other domains, too.

That's not how right-wingers operate, that's why you don't see many of them in science. They have a tendency to "believe".

[Old Man Svensson]

Well, I don't see why everyone is so persuaded than there was fraud.

It's quite possible, I would even it's likely, but I wouldn't dare to affirm it's sure at 100%

Process is flawed and has to be fixed, for sure. Involvement of the army worries me, yes. But I wouldn't make a call on the legitimacy right now. I would wait than more elements are avaliable to reach a fully enlightened decision, not just using first impressions.

It may sound ridiculous, but, we work that way in science, and I think the approach is worthwhile in other domains, too.

That's not how right-wingers operate, that's why you don't see many of them in science. They have a tendency to "believe".

We all "believe". Does that make me, someone that you personally helped identify with socialism, a right-winger?

[LastVoter]

Well, I don't see why everyone is so persuaded than there was fraud.

It's quite possible, I would even it's likely, but I wouldn't dare to affirm it's sure at 100%

Process is flawed and has to be fixed, for sure. Involvement of the army worries me, yes. But I wouldn't make a call on the legitimacy right now. I would wait than more elements are avaliable to reach a fully enlightened decision, not just using first impressions.

It may sound ridiculous, but, we work that way in science, and I think the approach is worthwhile in other domains, too.

That's not how right-wingers operate, that's why you don't see many of them in science. They have a tendency to "believe".

We all "believe". Does that make me, someone that you personally helped identify with socialism, a right-winger?

I think a couple examples from a few recent days tell a different story. Most notably their response when there was an attempt to compare reactions at Chavez and Thatcher deaths, and Bush's Florida in 2000. I don't think anyone on the left went around [inks]ing about how celebrations of Chavez's death were in bad taste.

[ag]

Do you have ANY doubt, that had Capriles been winning by a margin of 200,000 vote, his victory would have been recognized?

quite on the contra, there is no chance that a 1-2% Maduro victory will be recognized, in the international, (which think they run the show).

Do you mean the IV International? Just wondering.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Don't try to make sense out of Tweed's posts, ag. There is none.

[Zanas]

I'm not trying to be the moderate hero here, but I wanted to ask what exactly are we basing ourselves on to judge the process rigged ? This is a real question.

I haven't been following the thread live because I was in bed then at work, and I'm only reading the whole of it now, and frankly I don't see what's changed compared to any other election before that.

Rumors on Twitter had the opposition victorious : we've seen that before, right ? They gave results where they had 600,000 votes more : pretty sure we also saw this, although I don't know where their figures come from.

Are we relying on the only fact that Capriles has been called to meet military representants ? I agree this is weird and surely not a good sign, but are there other tangible signs ?

I mean, everyone was like "the opposition has won, clearly, as they are all over on twitter about it, and so the Chavistas are not calling victory because they wait to see how they can rig the election". Alright.

But how can we say the situation is not "the results are razor-thin, so the regime doesn't want to call victory too soon because they know they will be severely judged by the entire international press, and so the opposition feels confident enough to be all over twitter saying they won, and asking for a recount when the figures are published" ?

Frankly, from I have read right now, both situations seem equally plausible. I mean, if you haven't convinced yourself one way or the other beforehand. And I'll admit this was a rigged election if presented with further elements.

And one last thing : to those complaining about them not publishing results precinct by precinct while counting, well we never did that in France either, we publish the whole bunch when it's finished, and I guess our elections are quite reliable. So that's really not a good marker of good or bad democracy.