How much of a problem is the national debt?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 18, 2024, 11:01:00 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Political Debate (Moderator: Torie)
  How much of a problem is the national debt?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: How much of a problem is the national debt to the United States?
#1
#1 Problem
 
#2
Top 3
 
#3
Top 10
 
#4
The national debt is a problem but not in the top ten.
 
#5
The national debt is not a problem at all.
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 52

Author Topic: How much of a problem is the national debt?  (Read 1592 times)
Paul Kemp
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,230
United States
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: March 07, 2013, 07:17:19 PM »

Where do you rank the national debt among the problems/issues that the United States currently faces?

I've been having a debate with myself over the past few days about this. I don't feel like I've really formed a well-enough informed opinion to really offer a substantial opinion but I'm curious as to what others think. I do know that I do not consider it the first or second options.
Logged
Snowstalker Mk. II
Snowstalker
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,414
Palestinian Territory, Occupied


Political Matrix
E: -7.10, S: -4.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2013, 07:18:22 PM »
« Edited: March 07, 2013, 07:22:30 PM by Senator Snowstalker »

3 or 4, leaning towards the latter.
Logged
True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
Moderators
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 42,157
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2013, 07:43:02 PM »

The debt is at this point a symptom of the problem, the systemic deficit the Federal budget is facing, rather than a problem in and of itself.  Even if the economy were back to normal and we had no debt, our expenditures would be greater than our revenues.  Getting that back into balance is the most important long term problem we face, but doing so in the midst of our continued malaise is not so critical.  Still, we can get to work on some aspects of the solution, especially that portion of entitlement reform that has a long term fiscal impact but little to no short term impact.
Logged
King
intermoderate
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,357
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2013, 07:58:26 PM »

No concern.  The politics which surround the national debt will bankrupt this country long before the debt itself.

It's a big nominal number the party out of power always brings up to scare people for votes and it could hypothetically pose problems for us if tax revenues ever fell below the interest payment, but a payment that huge requires a ridiculous amount of debt which is virtually unachievable when you consider tax revenue is always inflating as well.

Debt is only a problem to entities which do not have their own currency or central bank.  Families cannot have massive debt.  Cities cannot have massive debt.  States cannot have massive debts.  Nations which foolishly ceded their right to currency to foreigners (Greece) cannot have massive debts.  The United States can have a debt five times this size and be fine.

Another flaw with the debt is that is a tally of debts owed but does not subtract debts held.  If the idea of China "calling our debt" isn't farcical enough for trade interests, the simple fact is we wouldn't even be in the red if our debt were called tomorrow.  The fine nations of the Europe, Africa, and South America continents owe this country far more than our debt to foreign lands, in a number which grows just as rapidly as every other nation holds budget deficits to stimulate economic growth in these trying times.

We are going to have to contract the money supply and subsequently the deficit eventually to avoid an inflation recession, but that's not a crisis or important looming decision.   It's a minor tuneup.  As long as we can bring ourselves to a point where nominal GDP growth outpaces the nominal growth of the debt, we can continue this process for the rest of our nation's history.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,890
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2013, 09:30:05 PM »

It is a slight inconvenience... Nowhere near the top 10, of course.
Logged
RI
realisticidealist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,687


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2013, 12:16:34 AM »

Not an issue worth wasting time on.
Logged
Paul Kemp
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,230
United States
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 09:55:18 AM »

I'm curious to see some posts from those who voted 1 or 2.
Logged
Politico
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,862
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2013, 01:02:56 PM »
« Edited: March 08, 2013, 01:10:55 PM by Politico »

A starter excerpt for why this is the biggest problem we face today (and why the problem is going to blow up in Obama's face or the next president's face unless fiscal responsibility is restored to Washington soon):

"We most often hear about the alarming $15.96 trillion national debt (more than 100% of GDP), and the 2012 budget deficit of $1.1 trillion (6.97% of GDP). As dangerous as those numbers are, they do not begin to tell the story of the federal government's true liabilities.

The actual liabilities of the federal government—including Social Security, Medicare, and federal employees' future retirement benefits—already exceed $86.8 trillion, or 550% of GDP. For the year ending Dec. 31, 2011, the annual accrued expense of Medicare and Social Security was $7 trillion. Nothing like that figure is used in calculating the deficit. In reality, the reported budget deficit is less than one-fifth of the more accurate figure.

Why haven't Americans heard about the titanic $86.8 trillion liability from these programs? One reason: The actual figures do not appear in black and white on any balance sheet....

As of the most recent Trustees' report in April, the net present value of the unfunded liability of Medicare was $42.8 trillion. The comparable balance sheet liability for Social Security is $20.5 trillion.

Were American policy makers to have the benefit of transparent financial statements prepared the way public companies must report their pension liabilities, they would see clearly the magnitude of the future borrowing that these liabilities imply. Borrowing on this scale could eclipse the capacity of global capital markets—and bankrupt not only the programs themselves but the entire federal government."

For more:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323353204578127374039087636.html

Once foreigners start to believe that America will stop repaying its debt, they will stop lending to us of course. Subsequently, we will be in a world of trouble moving forward.
Logged
King
intermoderate
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,357
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2013, 01:25:22 PM »

That whole op-ed is ridiculous, but WSJ is known for those.

If I take out a $550,000 mortgage and my income is $100,000, I am not 550% in debt.   Yes, we cannot payoff the medicare, social security, and government pensions that we have guaranteed to the year 2050 in one single year.  "Sorry."

The "total accrued expense" of Medicare is a joke statement, too.  It's not counted because the federal government doesn't pay it.  If Kaiser builds a hospital which accepts Medicare, they've added to the "total accrued expense" of the program.  Do you want Halliburton and Lockheed Martin's spending to be added to the defense spending total, too?
Logged
Blue3
Starwatcher
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,026
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 07:30:23 PM »

All that matters is the Interest on the National Debt that we have to pay.

Besides that, there's no effect.

Would be nice to get rid of it completely and have an actual Treasury, though.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,772


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 07:33:16 PM »

The national debt? A big problem, to be sure, but not the main one.

The current account deficit is the potential real time bomb. The reason why no-one cares about it, is, it has remained just that--potential-- for decades now, and there's no law that says it can't for decades more.
Logged
politicallefty
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,191
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -3.87, S: -9.22

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2013, 04:00:04 AM »

I went with option 4. It's mostly a problem insofar as interest payments go and the yearly budget deficit. I most certainly agree that we need to get back to a balanced budget (or even a surplus). However, I don't agree that that should done by crippling the less fortunate in this country. The time for real deficit reduction is during a strong economy, which we do not currently have. There was absolutely no excuse for the Bush Administration to run up deficits every single year. He had no reason not to continue the Clinton surpluses and pay down the debt. That really was his ultimate failure, in conjunction with tax cuts for the rich and a disastrous defense policy.
Logged
Indy Texas
independentTX
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,241
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: -3.48

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2013, 04:33:48 AM »

Top 3. But it is far outweighed by the Number 1 problem, which is chronically high unemployment. The consequences of having a broad swath of the population that is unable to work and in some cases has never been able to are far more damaging to a country.
Logged
DC Al Fine
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,085
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2013, 09:40:40 AM »


Horribly inflated health care costs and an aging population are two of our greatest long-term problems. Laying the blame on "debt" itself, rather than its causes, misses the point and leads us away from confronting what we must.
+1
Logged
Mechaman
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,791
Jamaica
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2013, 10:07:20 AM »

I'll just leave this here:



Really, it's a double edged sword.  Arguably, the advantage of being a government is that YOU CAN have debt.  However, too much of it (like anything) might be bad.

I'd probably say this is barely a Top Ten.  Ignoring the advice of Texas oilmen and war hawks should better the situation somewhat.
Logged
opebo
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 47,010


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2013, 03:47:01 PM »

The debt isn't a problem at all, it is just one of the (minor) side effects of the problem - under-taxation of the rich.

Logged
Mehmentum
Icefire9
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,584
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2013, 04:50:15 PM »

Its a problem, and certainly something that needs to be worked on, though preferably once the economy has fully recovered.

I'd say that there are a great many problems (in no particular order) that outwiegh it:

-Income inquality
-Governmnet corruption/ineffectiveness
-Unemployment
-Health Care costs
-Climate Change/the environment
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,111
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2013, 05:27:24 PM »

     The evolution of the debt in recent years has been extremely troublesome. The policy of the government today is grossly irresponsible, and yet nobody will care until this train finally jumps the tracks.
Logged
Paul Kemp
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,230
United States
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2013, 06:29:17 PM »

     The evolution of the debt in recent years has been extremely troublesome.

Why though?
Logged
King
intermoderate
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,357
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2013, 01:00:26 AM »

     The evolution of the debt in recent years has been extremely troublesome.

Why though?

Because big numbers are scary.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.045 seconds with 14 queries.