Toaster Pastry Gun Freedom Act proposed in Maryland

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

This is awesome

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[Lief 🗽]

If a kid threatens another with a gun-shaped object (including his fingers) he should be punished.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

If a kid threatens another with a gun-shaped object (including his fingers) he should be punished.

Why? It's not like he's going to actually hurt anyone with a toaster pastry.

[Antonio the Sixth]

What is this I don't even...

[Donerail]

Excellent news!

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Do you realize that toaster pastries are loaded with sugar?  Seems like banning them should be Bloomberg's next objective. Or maybe just limiting them to be no bigger than 1.6 ounces?

[Lief 🗽]

If a kid threatens another with a gun-shaped object (including his fingers) he should be punished.

Why? It's not like he's going to actually hurt anyone with a toaster pastry.

Because children should be taught that threatening people with violence is bad.

[Vosem]

If a kid threatens another with a gun-shaped object (including his fingers) he should be punished.

I absolutely love Lief's humor.

[Donerail]

If a kid threatens another with a gun-shaped object (including his fingers) he should be punished.

Why? It's not like he's going to actually hurt anyone with a toaster pastry.

Because children should be taught that threatening people with violence is bad.

If you feel that having a toaster pastry pointed at you is a threat of violence you should probably be one of the people in the bill scheduled to receive counseling.

[Lief 🗽]

Shaping something into a gun, pointing it at someone, and yelling "bang, bang" is definitely acting violently, yes. I wouldn't suspend a kid for that, but he should definitely be at least lectured about it.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Shaping something into a gun, pointing it at someone, and yelling "bang, bang" is definitely acting violently, yes. I wouldn't suspend a kid for that, but he should definitely be at least lectured about it.

children do this thing called "play," Lief. perhaps you've heard of it?

ftr, the kid was not pointing the pastry at anyone.

[Lief 🗽]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Friggin Liberals with their pastry gun control

[Obamanation]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

This. Anyone who disagrees with this is (or will be) a terrible parent.

[Donerail]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

In a study of adults who committed violent crimes (including the Virginia Tech killer), it was noted that their childhoods were marked by a lack of play (including violent play). "Play can act as a powerful deterrent, even an antidote to prevent violence. Play is a powerful catalyst for positive socialization", according to psychiatrist Stuart Brown. The Lucy Daniels Center for Early Childhood encourages parents not to suppress aggressive play. "Children turn to play so that they can learn what they need to learn about aggression. We should become concerned about children's relationship to aggression only if they appear to be overly pre-occupied with aggression in their thoughts or actions outside the sphere of play." 60 to 80 percent of boys and 30 percent of girls played with aggressive toys (including toy guns) at home.

TL;DR: studiest have never shown any kind of link between playing with toy weapons in childhood and violence in adulthood, and there may actually be a link between a lack of play and violence.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

If a kid threatens another with a gun-shaped object (including his fingers) he should be punished.

Why? It's not like he's going to actually hurt anyone with a toaster pastry.

Because children should be taught that threatening people with violence is bad.

Hmmm... I guess I could've faced some sort of arrest as early as elementary school then. Especially since there'd have to be this whole discussion as to whether "playing" finger guns is akin to threatening one with one.

[Vosem]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

This. Anyone who disagrees with this is (or will be) a terrible parent.

More important than the vague "bad" has to be actual gun safety -- what you do if you see a gun lying around (run away, then inform authorities), always assume a gun is loaded, if you have a gun in your hand for whatever reason never point it anyone, don't be an idiot, etc. etc. I would also argue that teaching people the correct way to use a gun is also important, but that comes down to the parents' decisions (and, after 18, the person's own decisions).

"Guns are bad" and then not speaking another word leads only to ignorance. And I think without permanent physical harm (and, at this kid's age, they're really not capable of that) even "violent" (note the quotation marks) play can be beneficial -- teaches you to try to avoid hurt, teaches you what you are and are not capable of, and has you doing physical activity in a world where childhood obesity is a terrible issue.

My father and grandfather brought me to a shooting range at the first time at the age of 9, and I remember it as a marvelous experience bonding with my family and figuring out how the world around me worked. (I wasn't actually allowed to handle a gun until several years later, I don't recall exactly when, but watching other people was still an experience I enjoyed immensely).

[Obamanation]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

In a study of adults who committed violent crimes (including the Virginia Tech killer), it was noted that their childhoods were marked by a lack of play (including violent play). "Play can act as a powerful deterrent, even an antidote to prevent violence. Play is a powerful catalyst for positive socialization", according to psychiatrist Stuart Brown. The Lucy Daniels Center for Early Childhood encourages parents not to suppress aggressive play. "Children turn to play so that they can learn what they need to learn about aggression. We should become concerned about children's relationship to aggression only if they appear to be overly pre-occupied with aggression in their thoughts or actions outside the sphere of play." 60 to 80 percent of boys and 30 percent of girls played with aggressive toys (including toy guns) at home.

TL;DR: studiest have never shown any kind of link between playing with toy weapons in childhood and violence in adulthood, and there may actually be a link between a lack of play and violence.

Spuriously-reasoned study is spuriously reasoned.

[Obamanation]

My father and grandfather brought me to a shooting range at the first time at the age of 9, and I remember it as a marvelous experience bonding with my family and figuring out how the world around me worked. (I wasn't actually allowed to handle a gun until several years later, I don't recall exactly when, but watching other people was still an experience I enjoyed immensely).

The fact that 9 year-olds are allowed at a shooting range, let alone allowed to discharge a firearm is disgusting and embodies everything that is wrong with America's culture of violence and pseudo-machismo.

[Vosem]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

In a study of adults who committed violent crimes (including the Virginia Tech killer), it was noted that their childhoods were marked by a lack of play (including violent play). "Play can act as a powerful deterrent, even an antidote to prevent violence. Play is a powerful catalyst for positive socialization", according to psychiatrist Stuart Brown. The Lucy Daniels Center for Early Childhood encourages parents not to suppress aggressive play. "Children turn to play so that they can learn what they need to learn about aggression. We should become concerned about children's relationship to aggression only if they appear to be overly pre-occupied with aggression in their thoughts or actions outside the sphere of play." 60 to 80 percent of boys and 30 percent of girls played with aggressive toys (including toy guns) at home.

TL;DR: studiest have never shown any kind of link between playing with toy weapons in childhood and violence in adulthood, and there may actually be a link between a lack of play and violence.

Spuriously-reasoned study is spuriously reasoned.

Surely you wouldn't dispute that people who interact more socially are better at interacting socially (and are therefore less likely to go on these sorts of massacres?)? It seems to me like a study declaring water at room temperature and sea level pressure to be a liquid -- common knowledge which goes without saying.

My father and grandfather brought me to a shooting range at the first time at the age of 9, and I remember it as a marvelous experience bonding with my family and figuring out how the world around me worked. (I wasn't actually allowed to handle a gun until several years later, I don't recall exactly when, but watching other people was still an experience I enjoyed immensely).

The fact that 9 year-olds are allowed at a shooting range, let alone allowed to discharge a firearm is disgusting and embodies everything that is wrong with America's culture of violence and pseudo-machismo.

I personally didn't shoot at the age of 9 except with Nerf guns. But there were really cute pictures on the wall of children much younger than me shooting quite accurately (they're still there). One little girl signed her picture, with all the 'r's backwards and all caps, declaring 'AGE 6' under the name, which escapes me at the moment as I haven't been there since Winter Break or so.

'America's macho culture'? My parents are immigrants, bro, who came to America seeking opportunity (and found it).

[Obamanation]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

In a study of adults who committed violent crimes (including the Virginia Tech killer), it was noted that their childhoods were marked by a lack of play (including violent play). "Play can act as a powerful deterrent, even an antidote to prevent violence. Play is a powerful catalyst for positive socialization", according to psychiatrist Stuart Brown. The Lucy Daniels Center for Early Childhood encourages parents not to suppress aggressive play. "Children turn to play so that they can learn what they need to learn about aggression. We should become concerned about children's relationship to aggression only if they appear to be overly pre-occupied with aggression in their thoughts or actions outside the sphere of play." 60 to 80 percent of boys and 30 percent of girls played with aggressive toys (including toy guns) at home.

TL;DR: studiest have never shown any kind of link between playing with toy weapons in childhood and violence in adulthood, and there may actually be a link between a lack of play and violence.

Spuriously-reasoned study is spuriously reasoned.

Surely you wouldn't dispute that people who interact more socially are better at interacting socially (and are therefore less likely to go on these sorts of massacres?)? It seems to me like a study declaring water at room temperature and sea level pressure to be a liquid -- common knowledge which goes without saying.

My father and grandfather brought me to a shooting range at the first time at the age of 9, and I remember it as a marvelous experience bonding with my family and figuring out how the world around me worked. (I wasn't actually allowed to handle a gun until several years later, I don't recall exactly when, but watching other people was still an experience I enjoyed immensely).

The fact that 9 year-olds are allowed at a shooting range, let alone allowed to discharge a firearm is disgusting and embodies everything that is wrong with America's culture of violence and pseudo-machismo.

I personally didn't shoot at the age of 9 except with Nerf guns. But there were really cute pictures on the wall of children much younger than me shooting quite accurately (they're still there).

Just because they are cute doesn't mean the should use a gun. Who cares that they are accurate. A 9 year-old isn't mature enough to wholly comprehend that a gun isn't a toy. A gun is a weapon and a dangerous tool and should be nowhere near a child.

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Oh please...now you're going to argue that immigrants don't absorb elements of native culture in order to assimilate? My dad is an immigrant too, and he's changed profoundly (for the worse, I may add) since he moved to this country.

[Donerail]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

In a study of adults who committed violent crimes (including the Virginia Tech killer), it was noted that their childhoods were marked by a lack of play (including violent play). "Play can act as a powerful deterrent, even an antidote to prevent violence. Play is a powerful catalyst for positive socialization", according to psychiatrist Stuart Brown. The Lucy Daniels Center for Early Childhood encourages parents not to suppress aggressive play. "Children turn to play so that they can learn what they need to learn about aggression. We should become concerned about children's relationship to aggression only if they appear to be overly pre-occupied with aggression in their thoughts or actions outside the sphere of play." 60 to 80 percent of boys and 30 percent of girls played with aggressive toys (including toy guns) at home.

TL;DR: studiest have never shown any kind of link between playing with toy weapons in childhood and violence in adulthood, and there may actually be a link between a lack of play and violence.

Spuriously-reasoned study is spuriously reasoned.

All the evidence and all the experts are on one side of the issue. Do you have anything to bring up for the other side?

[Obamanation]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

In a study of adults who committed violent crimes (including the Virginia Tech killer), it was noted that their childhoods were marked by a lack of play (including violent play). "Play can act as a powerful deterrent, even an antidote to prevent violence. Play is a powerful catalyst for positive socialization", according to psychiatrist Stuart Brown. The Lucy Daniels Center for Early Childhood encourages parents not to suppress aggressive play. "Children turn to play so that they can learn what they need to learn about aggression. We should become concerned about children's relationship to aggression only if they appear to be overly pre-occupied with aggression in their thoughts or actions outside the sphere of play." 60 to 80 percent of boys and 30 percent of girls played with aggressive toys (including toy guns) at home.

TL;DR: studiest have never shown any kind of link between playing with toy weapons in childhood and violence in adulthood, and there may actually be a link between a lack of play and violence.

Spuriously-reasoned study is spuriously reasoned.

All the evidence and all the experts are on one side of the issue. Do you have anything to bring up for the other side?

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Also provide a link.

...Even if playing as a child reduces the risk of being a sociopath, why would you want to encourage violence in your kids by allowing violent play?

[Vosem]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

In a study of adults who committed violent crimes (including the Virginia Tech killer), it was noted that their childhoods were marked by a lack of play (including violent play). "Play can act as a powerful deterrent, even an antidote to prevent violence. Play is a powerful catalyst for positive socialization", according to psychiatrist Stuart Brown. The Lucy Daniels Center for Early Childhood encourages parents not to suppress aggressive play. "Children turn to play so that they can learn what they need to learn about aggression. We should become concerned about children's relationship to aggression only if they appear to be overly pre-occupied with aggression in their thoughts or actions outside the sphere of play." 60 to 80 percent of boys and 30 percent of girls played with aggressive toys (including toy guns) at home.

TL;DR: studiest have never shown any kind of link between playing with toy weapons in childhood and violence in adulthood, and there may actually be a link between a lack of play and violence.

Spuriously-reasoned study is spuriously reasoned.

Surely you wouldn't dispute that people who interact more socially are better at interacting socially (and are therefore less likely to go on these sorts of massacres?)? It seems to me like a study declaring water at room temperature and sea level pressure to be a liquid -- common knowledge which goes without saying.

My father and grandfather brought me to a shooting range at the first time at the age of 9, and I remember it as a marvelous experience bonding with my family and figuring out how the world around me worked. (I wasn't actually allowed to handle a gun until several years later, I don't recall exactly when, but watching other people was still an experience I enjoyed immensely).

The fact that 9 year-olds are allowed at a shooting range, let alone allowed to discharge a firearm is disgusting and embodies everything that is wrong with America's culture of violence and pseudo-machismo.

I personally didn't shoot at the age of 9 except with Nerf guns. But there were really cute pictures on the wall of children much younger than me shooting quite accurately (they're still there).

Just because they are cute doesn't mean the should use a gun. Who cares that they are accurate. A 9 year-old isn't mature enough to wholly comprehend that a gun isn't a toy. A gun is a weapon and a dangerous tool and should be nowhere near a child.

Am I not allowed to use adjectives so that you can picture it better in your head? Otherwise, prose becomes scribbling. In any case, I don't see what's wrong with teaching children safe ways to handle guns and correct ways to use them so that they can do it better when they are older.

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Oh please...now you're going to argue that immigrants don't absorb elements of native culture in order to assimilate? My dad is an immigrant too, and he's changed profoundly (for the worse, I may add) since he moved to this country.

Oh, of course they do, but I'm confident this is a left-over trait from the old country. Where my father went to public school, gun training was a mandatory part of the 8th grade curriculum (which is not something I'm encouraging, as I think in the interests of religious freedom for Quakers and the like this isn't something that should be taught at a public school), and gun ownership was a very entrenched part of the culture.

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

In a study of adults who committed violent crimes (including the Virginia Tech killer), it was noted that their childhoods were marked by a lack of play (including violent play). "Play can act as a powerful deterrent, even an antidote to prevent violence. Play is a powerful catalyst for positive socialization", according to psychiatrist Stuart Brown. The Lucy Daniels Center for Early Childhood encourages parents not to suppress aggressive play. "Children turn to play so that they can learn what they need to learn about aggression. We should become concerned about children's relationship to aggression only if they appear to be overly pre-occupied with aggression in their thoughts or actions outside the sphere of play." 60 to 80 percent of boys and 30 percent of girls played with aggressive toys (including toy guns) at home.

TL;DR: studiest have never shown any kind of link between playing with toy weapons in childhood and violence in adulthood, and there may actually be a link between a lack of play and violence.

Spuriously-reasoned study is spuriously reasoned.

All the evidence and all the experts are on one side of the issue. Do you have anything to bring up for the other side?

Of course he doesn't, this is Obamanation. He'll just echo whatever Lief says, feign outrage over something, and continue on his merry way. Facts are biased.

[Donerail]

Yeah, and playing violently should not be allowed. Maybe if we taught children from a young age that guns were bad, people wouldn't go around massacring each other in this country.

In a study of adults who committed violent crimes (including the Virginia Tech killer), it was noted that their childhoods were marked by a lack of play (including violent play). "Play can act as a powerful deterrent, even an antidote to prevent violence. Play is a powerful catalyst for positive socialization", according to psychiatrist Stuart Brown. The Lucy Daniels Center for Early Childhood encourages parents not to suppress aggressive play. "Children turn to play so that they can learn what they need to learn about aggression. We should become concerned about children's relationship to aggression only if they appear to be overly pre-occupied with aggression in their thoughts or actions outside the sphere of play." 60 to 80 percent of boys and 30 percent of girls played with aggressive toys (including toy guns) at home.

TL;DR: studiest have never shown any kind of link between playing with toy weapons in childhood and violence in adulthood, and there may actually be a link between a lack of play and violence.

Spuriously-reasoned study is spuriously reasoned.

All the evidence and all the experts are on one side of the issue. Do you have anything to bring up for the other side?

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Also provide a link.

...Even if playing as a child reduces the risk of being a sociopath, why would you want to encourage violence in your kids by allowing violent play?

Because allowing violent play leads to less violence, is why. That's the point.

http://www.nifplay.org/whitman.html
http://www.lucydanielscenter.org/page/are-toy-guns-ever-ok
http://www.webmd.com/parenting/features/toy-guns-do-they-lead-real-life-violence