BREAKING NEWS: POPE FRANCIS I - Jorge Mario Bergoglio - Argentina

[7,052,770]

The front page of the Huffington Post is just ridiculous right now.  Blatant anti-Catholic agendas like that are the best way to get lite Catholics like me worked up into a zealous pro-Catholic frenzy...

[Miles]

The front page of the Huffington Post is just ridiculous right now.  Blatant anti-Catholic agendas like that are the best way to get lite Catholics like me worked up into a zealous pro-Catholic frenzy...

Yes, I'm disappointed too with how they are covering this.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

?

[Mr. Morden]

Reading Michael Brendan Dougherty on Twitter.  He doesn't like the non-traditional style of mass that the new pope has presided over in the past, with lots of guitar music and clapping.  See, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3RJK0yULkCY#!

[Citizen (The) Doctor]

Reading Michael Brendan Dougherty on Twitter.  He doesn't like the non-traditional style of mass that the new pope has presided over in the past, with lots of guitar music and clapping.  See, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3RJK0yULkCY#!

It's the devil's music!

[King]

The first Pope not from Europe.

He's an Italian who is from Argentina. His background is in some ways more traditional than either John Paul or Benedict. And yet, his positions are likely to further alienate Catholics in the developed world. They need Don Draper in the worst way.

The developed world is a lost cause.  The Catholic goal is to prevent the Muslims and Evangelicals from winning the developing world.

Given how relatively horrible those two can be, I hope the Catholic Church succeeds.

[Mr. Morden]

More Michael Brendan Dougherty pessimism:

link

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[MyRescueKittehRocks]

The first Pope not from Europe.

He's an Italian who is from Argentina. His background is in some ways more traditional than either John Paul or Benedict. And yet, his positions are likely to further alienate Catholics in the developed world. They need Don Draper in the worst way.

The developed world is a lost cause.  The Catholic goal is to prevent the Muslims and Evangelicals from winning the developing world.

Given how relatively horrible those two can be, I hope the Catholic Church succeeds.

Evangelicals are not horrible.

[fezzyfestoon]

I'm kind of glad the HuffPost coverage is what it is. Those were the things I was wondering about, so now I know that there's nothing positive to look for in this...as expected.

[7,052,770]

I'm kind of glad the HuffPost coverage is what it is. Those were the things I was wondering about, so now I know that there's nothing positive to look for in this...as expected.

So you don't think it's trolling to suggest that Francis was behind the murders of liberal Argentine priests?  You don't think it expresses an agenda to put his position on gay marriage in big red letters (a position we all know the church has right now) as if it's the #1 issue of the church, rather than what sets him apart from other cardinals?

Come on...

[Obamanation]

I'm kind of glad the HuffPost coverage is what it is. Those were the things I was wondering about, so now I know that there's nothing positive to look for in this...as expected.

So you don't think it's trolling to suggest that Francis was behind the murders of liberal Argentine priests?  You don't think it expresses an agenda to put his position on gay marriage in big red letters (a position we all know the church has right now) as if it's the #1 issue of the church, rather than what sets him apart from other cardinals?

Come on...

You're absolutely right, Harry, but he doesn't have an intelligent answer so he won't.

[TDAS04]

The first Pope not from Europe.

Nope, there were African/Middle Eastern Popes way way back in the day.

OK, I was wrong.  He is the first from Latin America, though.

[fezzyfestoon]

Wow, that was rude...I'm right here. I didn't see whatever that was about the Argentine priests and don't particularly care. Things like contraception, abortion, and gay marriage are the chief issues I care about. There's not much in my life affected by the Pope, so the broad issues surrounding perpetuated bigotry at the cost of lives take precedence for me. Not all of us drink the Kool-Aid, so the bottom line is much appreciated.

[7,052,770]

Wow, that was rude...I'm right here. I didn't see whatever that was about the Argentine priests and don't particularly care. Things like contraception, abortion, and gay marriage are the chief issues I care about. There's not much in my life affected by the Pope, so the broad issues surrounding perpetuated bigotry at the cost of lives take precedence for me. Not all of us drink the Kool-Aid, so the bottom line is much appreciated.

Francis did not order the deaths of Argentine priests.  It is blatant sensationalism and lies for the Huffington Post to insinuate he did.  You can't say "I'm right here" and at the same time say "oh, actually I didn't see that."

As for abortion, gay marriage, and contraception, obviously whoever the new pope was would be against those.  The contraception ban will almost certainly fall in the next 30 years or so, but it won't be on a pope's first day, and it will probably be from a pope who had previously fallen in line on the issue.
Gay marriage will probably never come, but I would expect to see Episcopal-style gay blessings by the time we have a pope born in the 1980s or so. Regardless, we all knew what the new pope would think.
And the Church will probably oppose abortion 500 years from now, so it's not worth even wondering what any potential pope would think about it.

So yes, the Huffington Post chose 1 line of complete BS and 3 wedge issues that were givens, rather than relevant information that we might not have known (for example, he's super pro-labor, or even that he apparently likes hand-waving and silly guitars).

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

When we were speculating about what name the new pope would choose, I posted on some possible long shots.

I could see a pope who had been involved in healing the breach between the Roman and Greek churches taking the name Constantine II.  I could see a pope elected from outside the conclave taking the name Fabian II. Mark II as well as Matthew I and Luke I are certainly possible for a pope who wished to honor one of other gospel writers than John. Miltiades II is a possible, but not very likely name for an African Pope.  Francis I is also possible. I would be quite surprised if any other name that has been used either once or not at all was chosen, and even these are unlikely.

I like what I've heard so far .  None of the cardinals were going to change doctrine on the sexual issues, save possibly priestly celibacy.  But this one is not likely to make it a central concern and instead focus on the social justice aspect of Christ's message and giving the Curia a badly needed overhaul.

[fezzyfestoon]

Like I said, those were the relevant issues for those of us not involved in the nuances of intra-Catholic goings on. I didn't see that stuff about killing priests or whatever and I have no particular interest in going back and looking at it because I don't care. The "wedge" issues, things that should have been taken care of decades ago, are the only things I find really relevant and until they make any progress on them I won't care who the pope is. Those are the things they can really change by coming into the 20th century let alone the current one.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

'Should have been taken care of decades ago'? Do you have any understanding whatsoever of how these people think?

I understand dismay that any new pope was inevitably going to hew to a very conservative line on homosexuality and female ordination and so forth, but people who act like this is some sort of betrayal, or letdown, or surprise of any kind, or like any of this is somehow particular to Bergoglio/Francis, baffle me.

[fezzyfestoon]

'Should have been taken care of decades ago'? Do you have any understanding whatsoever of how these people think?

Yes. That's exactly why I don't care too deeply about this. I didn't expect much and those were the only things most of us care about, so the coverage was perfectly informative. That's the point I made and that's as far as I care about the pope.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

'The only things most of us care about'? You need to define either 'only' or 'us' or both for me to know whether or not that makes any sense.

[All Along The Watchtower]

'The only things most of us care about'? You need to define either 'only' or 'us' or both for me to know whether or not that makes any sense.

us=the suburban white male post-materialistic collective that is the Atlas Forum

[fezzyfestoon]

Yeah, close enough

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Yeah, close enough

I take a certain amount of pride in having priorities that don't always or usually align with the demographic Progressive Realist is describing, honestly.

[fezzyfestoon]

I agree with who I agree with, I suppose. This is the first I'm hearing of these collectives I belong to though.

[pbrower2a]

The first Pope not from Europe.

Of course the center of gravity of the Roman Catholic Church is no longer Europe. The largest Catholic populations in the world are to be found in Brazil, Mexico, the Philippines (culturally a piece of Latin America) and the US before one gets to France, Italy, and back to Colombia.

It was only a matter of time. I figured that there was a high probability of the current Pope to come from Latin America. The Catholic Church in the USA has just too many scandals.

So far I like the street credentials of this Pope. He has adopted the style of one of the most honored of Saints, Francis of Assisi and has shown signs of rejection of pointless luxury. I hope that this Holy Father can challenge poverty as effectively as John Paul II addressed the degrading and dehumanizing vileness that is Communism. Sure he is very much a traditionalist, but in my experience the people most capable of forcing benign change upon corrupt institutions are those who respect traditions and use them as pretexts for challenging corruption and other institutional perversity. People who believe in nothing fall for anything.

The Catholic Church has much to address in itself, including child sexual abuse by priests who have violated not only human decency but their vows of celibacy and obedience. But it has influence beyond itself. Can it challenge the disease of drugs with the corruption, terrorism, and perverse cash flow that drugs generate? Can it challenge the greed and excess of American plutocracy?

I am not and have never been a Roman Catholic, by the way.  

[Lincoln Republican]

"He strongly opposed legislation introduced in 2010 by the Argentine Government to allow same-sex marriage, calling it a "real and dire anthropological throwback".[14] In a letter to the monasteries of Buenos Aires, he wrote: "Let's not be naive, we're not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God."[15] He has also insisted that adoption by gay and lesbian people is a form of discrimination against children."

Francis I certainly gets it right on marriage and adoption.  I agree with his stance on those issues.