Any tax reform that lowers the top rate and scraps deductions should be rejected

[Torie]

And therefore ... ?

The middle class would miss these deductions far more than the wealthy.

That is indubitably true - unless offset by lower rates. However, the pension plan rules are pretty heavily skewed in favor of high income earners (an above the line deduction), along with to a lesser extent, the deduction for state income taxes, until you hit really high levels of income, and such deductions are phased out.

Pension plan contributions are limited to about $18000 a year and Ira deductions are limited to $5000 per person.  

Lower tax rates would just add fuel to the fire of the problem by giving the wealthy a further benefit.  In a addition to losing a deduction that didn't mean much to them anyway, they get their rates lowered.

Nope. The limit is 55,500 actually for 2012 (including the $5,500 "catch up" for those over 50 years of age). My partners did that for 2012. They, and I, did this for about 20 years paying pennies into our two secretaries' SEP IRA's, all above the line deductions, considerably more valuable than Schedule A deductions because they come off the top from gross income. I don't make enough anymore to hit the max because I don't work for pay these days anywhere like I used to, and thus am not allowed to put in quite that much these days (for 2012 about a "mere" 40K this year maybe, I am not sure yet). Feel my pain.

You could give lower rates for the middle class, and not high income earners.

Any more thoughts on this or are we done?

[traininthedistance]

The mortgage interest deduction is, to my mind, discriminatory against renters and encourages disastrous overinvestment in single-family housing, especially relative to other forms.

I really kind of irrationally loathe its existence, and while I understand practically that you can't get rid of it cold turkey without causing disruption, I would like to phase it out.  Yeah, yeah, axing the mortgage interest deduction would be bad for the "middle class".  But it would make the tax code more fair for the actually poor, so there.

[DC Al Fine]

The mortgage interest deduction is, to my mind, discriminatory against renters and encourages disastrous overinvestment in single-family housing, especially relative to other forms.

Amen to that. It's one giant subsidy to a particular lifestyle choice, and it encourages people to incur more debt and stay in debt longer. Horrible policy.

[TNF]

How about a 9.75% sales tax rate nationally and no income tax?

Yeah, screw poor people.

[Torie]

How about a 9.75% sales tax rate nationally and no income tax?

Yeah, screw poor people.

I can imagine the howls if I said something like that. 

[Link]

How about a 9.75% sales tax rate nationally and no income tax?

Better yet just take the working poor out behind the barn and put a bullet in their head?  A tax is money government collects from the citizens.  If you total all the taxes paid you will find in many instances the US taxation system is actually regressive.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/280027-study-state-tax-systems-regressive

The United States due to the way it is set up allows politicians to play these numbers games with taxes.  But once you take into account ALL the taxes a working family pays you can see just how raw the deal is.  Sorry for not using a better source.  Strangely no one really wants to talk about this elephant in the room.

[Mr.Phips]

How about a 9.75% sales tax rate nationally and no income tax?

Better yet just take the working poor out behind the barn and put a bullet in their head?  A tax is money government collects from the citizens.  If you total all the taxes paid you will find in many instances the US taxation system is actually regressive.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/domestic-taxes/280027-study-state-tax-systems-regressive

The United States due to the way it is set up allows politicians to play these numbers games with taxes.  But once you take into account ALL the taxes a working family pays you can see just how raw the deal is.  Sorry for not using a better source.  Strangely no one really wants to talk about this elephant in the room.

And these taxes arent even deductable on their federal return, unless they can itemize and their state income and property taxes happen to be lower than the sales taxes that they paid. 

[TNF]

How about a 9.75% sales tax rate nationally and no income tax?

Yeah, screw poor people.

I can imagine the howls if I said something like that. 

It was sarcasm on my part? My apologies if I don't exactly understand what you're getting at, here. Context is hard to discern online.

As for the topic, any tax reform that lowers the top rate, period, should be rejected. We need revenue. If anything, we need to create a bunch of new tax brackets to start breaking up the amount of wealth concentrated in the hands of the few. The top rate should serve that purpose and probably shouldn't be any less than 75% on income over $750,000 per year.

[opebo]

...we need to create a bunch of new tax brackets to start breaking up the amount of wealth concentrated in the hands of the few. The top rate should serve that purpose and probably shouldn't be any less than 75% on income over $750,000 per year.

That's right, the underlined is the key to begin removing the power that these people exert over others - but, of course, the power that they have makes it impossible to every implement such policies.  Ultimately some from of confiscation of 'their' wealth (their political power) would be the only way to change anything (preferably the 100% confiscation of the guillotine).  However, it is hard to see how any of this could ever happen.

[krazen1211]

How about a 9.75% sales tax rate nationally and no income tax?

Yeah, screw poor people.

Is that what Cook County did when the liberals hiked the sales tax to 10.25%?

[Link]

How about a 9.75% sales tax rate nationally and no income tax?

Yeah, screw poor people.

Is that what Cook County did when the liberals hiked the sales tax to 10.25%?

No.  There is currently no federal sales tax.  If there was a 9.75% federal sales tax then the people in cook county would be paying 20%.  It's math.

[krazen1211]

How about a 9.75% sales tax rate nationally and no income tax?

Yeah, screw poor people.

Is that what Cook County did when the liberals hiked the sales tax to 10.25%?

No.  There is currently no federal sales tax.  If there was a 9.75% federal sales tax then the people in cook county would be paying 20%.  It's math.

The reference in question was 'Yeah, screw poor people. ".

Leftist government hogs love sales tax just as much as anyone. They merely pile it on other taxes on top.

[Link]

How about a 9.75% sales tax rate nationally and no income tax?

Yeah, screw poor people.

Is that what Cook County did when the liberals hiked the sales tax to 10.25%?

No.  There is currently no federal sales tax.  If there was a 9.75% federal sales tax then the people in cook county would be paying 20%.  It's math.

The reference in question was 'Yeah, screw poor people. ".

Leftist government hogs love sales tax just as much as anyone. They merely pile it on other taxes on top.

A 10.25% local tax is not the same thing as a 9.75% federal tax on top of local sales tax.