If it were up to the states....? (Abortion)
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  If it were up to the states....? (Abortion)
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Author Topic: If it were up to the states....? (Abortion)  (Read 7248 times)
Moooooo
nickshepDEM
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2005, 04:13:22 PM »



Blue = Illegal
Red = Legal
Grey = Legal (w/ restrictions)
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Blue Rectangle
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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2005, 04:13:52 PM »

Legal  16
NH, VT, MA, RI, ME, NY, NJ, MD, DE, CA, OR, WA, NV, IL, HI, CT

Legal with restrictions 9
MN, WI, MI, AZ, NM, CO, MT, MO, AK

Illegal 25
WY, UT, ID, SD, ND, NE, KS, OK, TX, MS, AR, LA, AL, TN, KY, IN, IA, GA, NC, SC, FL, PA, OH, WV, VA
So basically the map would look like Bush vs. Kerry, with a few exceptions: PA, NH and NV.

How does abortion play in MA and IL?

I *think* that WV would be the only state to ban both abortion and the death penalty
Maybe PA too?  IA?  Or MN, if it actually went that far on abortion.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2005, 04:15:04 PM »

I *think* that WV would be the only state to ban both abortion and the death penalty
Maybe PA too?  IA?  Or MN, if it actually went that far on abortion.
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PA wouldn't ban the death penalty.
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2005, 04:21:29 PM »

I *think* that WV would be the only state to ban both abortion and the death penalty
Maybe PA too?  IA?  Or MN, if it actually went that far on abortion.
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PA wouldn't ban the death penalty.

yes.  who cares what the pope says about death penalty, war and pverty.  just quote him on abortion and homosexuality!
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Alcon
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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2005, 04:26:54 PM »

A lot of states that are libertarian like South Dakota and Wyoming would be a major issue if the people decided, but with their current legislatures, would definietly make it illegal.

Montana is the exception. With the local Democratic Party kicking butt, it would be a major battle, with a big edge for the pro-choice with restrictions set.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2005, 04:31:36 PM »

I *think* that WV would be the only state to ban both abortion and the death penalty
Maybe PA too?  IA?  Or MN, if it actually went that far on abortion.
Quote
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PA wouldn't ban the death penalty.

yes.  who cares what the pope says about death penalty, war and pverty.  just quote him on abortion and homosexuality!

I disagree with the Pope. What's your point?
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Angel of Death
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« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2005, 07:36:05 PM »

Perhaps Roe vs. Wade is indeed a good thing in order to avoid Dred Scott-like situations.
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they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2005, 10:36:48 PM »

I *think* that WV would be the only state to ban both abortion and the death penalty

North Dakota, possibly Iowa
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they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2005, 10:45:43 PM »

Here's the death penalty map for comparison:

blue = has it
red = does not have it
gray = has it but has not used it since the death penalty was declared constitutional (also worth noting that currently Kansas and New York do not have it at all since both their death penalty laws have been overturned by state courts)

Illinois technically has it, but it has a moratorium and clemency to all prisoners on it from former Gov. Ryan, and is moving toward repeal. For all practically purposes it should be a read state. I have also heard MD and NM are moving toward repeal
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bgwah
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« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2005, 10:58:44 PM »

Washington would almost certainly have it legal. Voters have approved it at least 4 times, dating back to the 70s.

Montana probably would, with Democrats doing well there. Not to mention medical marijuana easily passed there.
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2005, 04:25:46 AM »

Next question is could a particular county in a state overturn it's restrictive laws.  Off the bat in PA I know Montgomery, Bucks, Chester, Delaware, and Philadelphia would do it in a heartbeat. 
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they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2005, 11:53:55 AM »

I *think* that WV would be the only state to ban both abortion and the death penalty
Maybe PA too?  IA?  Or MN, if it actually went that far on abortion.
Quote
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PA wouldn't ban the death penalty.

yes.  who cares what the pope says about death penalty, war and pverty.  just quote him on abortion and homosexuality!

I disagree with the Pope. What's your point?

according to the Catholic Church the Pope is infallible and thus right about everything. If he said the sky is green, it's a sin to say the sky is blue.
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Blue Rectangle
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« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2005, 12:44:57 PM »

I *think* that WV would be the only state to ban both abortion and the death penalty
Maybe PA too?  IA?  Or MN, if it actually went that far on abortion.
Quote
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PA wouldn't ban the death penalty.

yes.  who cares what the pope says about death penalty, war and pverty.  just quote him on abortion and homosexuality!

I disagree with the Pope. What's your point?

according to the Catholic Church the Pope is infallible and thus right about everything. If he said the sky is green, it's a sin to say the sky is blue.
Not true.

For the Pope to issue an infallible statement four conditions must be met:
1. He must be speaking officially as the head of the entire Church. We call this ex cathedra, "from the chair" of Peter.
2. His statement must apply to the "entire" Church.
3. It must be a statement on faith or morals.
4. The Pope must intend for the statement to be a final decision on a teaching of faith or morals.

The Pope does not have any authority to originate new doctrine. He cannot alter or change a single word of scripture or divine tradition. He is strictly limited to doctrinal interpretations, to clarify or define some point of ancient tradition.

As for Catholic teaching on abortion vs. the death penalty, abortion is always wrong while the death penalty is sometimes justified.  The Pope's recent strong opposition to the death penalty only dates back to 1995.  This view has really only developed over the past few decades, while opposition to abortion has always been strong.  It is therefore understandable that most Catholic voters are more concerned with abortion than the death penalty.
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Jake
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« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2005, 01:33:07 PM »

Next question is could a particular county in a state overturn it's restrictive laws.  Off the bat in PA I know Montgomery, Bucks, Chester, Delaware, and Philadelphia would do it in a heartbeat. 

There isn't such thing as county rights Tongue
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2005, 02:19:20 PM »

Next question is could a particular county in a state overturn it's restrictive laws.  Off the bat in PA I know Montgomery, Bucks, Chester, Delaware, and Philadelphia would do it in a heartbeat. 

Chester would support a ban.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2005, 02:20:31 PM »

I *think* that WV would be the only state to ban both abortion and the death penalty
Maybe PA too?  IA?  Or MN, if it actually went that far on abortion.
Quote
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PA wouldn't ban the death penalty.

yes.  who cares what the pope says about death penalty, war and pverty.  just quote him on abortion and homosexuality!

I disagree with the Pope. What's your point?

according to the Catholic Church the Pope is infallible and thus right about everything. If he said the sky is green, it's a sin to say the sky is blue.

Yeah if you knew anything, you'd realize that that's wrong. Nice try, BRTD. You're still a moron. Don't act like you know things when you really don't. Read Blue Rectangle's post.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2005, 03:40:17 PM »

Few states would ban it entirely.  Some southern states and Utah would restrict it to rape/incest, others like NM and PA it would only be first trimester.  The bulk of states would have it legal but restricted, with only a few liberal havens offering it on demand.
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2005, 04:58:50 PM »

Few states would ban it entirely.  Some southern states and Utah would restrict it to rape/incest, others like NM and PA it would only be first trimester.  The bulk of states would have it legal but restricted, with only a few liberal havens offering it on demand.

That's probably right for PA.  Thing is SE Penn Democrats and Republicans (minus the NE Philly delegation) would unite in Harrisburg and fight quite hard to keep it. 
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2005, 05:08:36 PM »

Few states would ban it entirely.  Some southern states and Utah would restrict it to rape/incest, others like NM and PA it would only be first trimester.  The bulk of states would have it legal but restricted, with only a few liberal havens offering it on demand.

That's probably right for PA.  Thing is SE Penn Democrats and Republicans (minus the NE Philly delegation) would unite in Harrisburg and fight quite hard to keep it. 

Doesn't mean they would win. PA is a Pro Life state. Now sit back, take a deep breath and accept that.
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2005, 05:11:17 PM »

Few states would ban it entirely.  Some southern states and Utah would restrict it to rape/incest, others like NM and PA it would only be first trimester.  The bulk of states would have it legal but restricted, with only a few liberal havens offering it on demand.

That's probably right for PA.  Thing is SE Penn Democrats and Republicans (minus the NE Philly delegation) would unite in Harrisburg and fight quite hard to keep it. 

Doesn't mean they would win. PA is a Pro Life state. Now sit back, take a deep breath and accept that.

I don't think some legislators want to alienate people within their own party.  There are a lot of pro-choice Republicans in SE Penn.  Likewise there are pro-life Democrats out west.  There would likely be a bi-partisan compromise.
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danwxman
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« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2005, 05:31:48 PM »

Few states would ban it entirely.  Some southern states and Utah would restrict it to rape/incest, others like NM and PA it would only be first trimester.  The bulk of states would have it legal but restricted, with only a few liberal havens offering it on demand.

That's probably right for PA.  Thing is SE Penn Democrats and Republicans (minus the NE Philly delegation) would unite in Harrisburg and fight quite hard to keep it. 

Doesn't mean they would win. PA is a Pro Life state. Now sit back, take a deep breath and accept that.

I don't think some legislators want to alienate people within their own party.  There are a lot of pro-choice Republicans in SE Penn.  Likewise there are pro-life Democrats out west.  There would likely be a bi-partisan compromise.

Probably. Those who are saying abortion would be outright illegal in Pennsylvania clearly aren't taking a look at the big picture. We have a pro-choice governor, the state voted for the last four Democratic candidates who were openly pro-choice, and we have one pro-choice senator who is a Republican. Sure, there are a lot of Democrats in the southwest who are pro-life. But more importantly are the Philadelphia suburbs where theres a lot of Republicans who are pro-choice. The Southwest is becoming less and less important in state politics. Rendell beat Casey, Kerry beat Bush (Southwest PA trended huge towards Bush, but the Southeast still gave the state to Kerry).
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2005, 05:43:50 PM »

Few states would ban it entirely.  Some southern states and Utah would restrict it to rape/incest, others like NM and PA it would only be first trimester.  The bulk of states would have it legal but restricted, with only a few liberal havens offering it on demand.

That's probably right for PA.  Thing is SE Penn Democrats and Republicans (minus the NE Philly delegation) would unite in Harrisburg and fight quite hard to keep it. 

Doesn't mean they would win. PA is a Pro Life state. Now sit back, take a deep breath and accept that.

I don't think some legislators want to alienate people within their own party.  There are a lot of pro-choice Republicans in SE Penn.  Likewise there are pro-life Democrats out west.  There would likely be a bi-partisan compromise.

Probably. Those who are saying abortion would be outright illegal in Pennsylvania clearly aren't taking a look at the big picture. We have a pro-choice governor, the state voted for the last four Democratic candidates who were openly pro-choice, and we have one pro-choice senator who is a Republican. Sure, there are a lot of Democrats in the southwest who are pro-life. But more importantly are the Philadelphia suburbs where theres a lot of Republicans who are pro-choice. The Southwest is becoming less and less important in state politics. Rendell beat Casey, Kerry beat Bush (Southwest PA trended huge towards Bush, but the Southeast still gave the state to Kerry).

Prominent Pro Lifers include: Bob Casey, Jr. (D - State Treasurer), Jack Wagner (D - State Auditor), Catherine Baker Knoll (D - Lt. Governor), Rick Santorum (R - U.S. Senator), Tom Corbett (R - State Attorney Gen.) a clear majority of our Congressional delegation...  Do I need to continue?
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WMS
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« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2005, 08:29:04 PM »

Few states would ban it entirely.  Some southern states and Utah would restrict it to rape/incest, others like NM and PA it would only be first trimester.  The bulk of states would have it legal but restricted, with only a few liberal havens offering it on demand.

And in NM, I would bet that there'd be some restrictions on the first trimester as well.
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Leif Ericson
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« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2005, 10:01:15 PM »

Michigan would keep it, maybe with some restrictions
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nclib
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« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2005, 12:35:04 PM »
« Edited: February 19, 2005, 12:36:39 PM by nclib »

NARAL's report cards for the 50 states...

Red--grade of A or B
Gray--grade of C
Red--grade of D or F



I was surprised about Wisc., Mich., Rhode Island, and West Virginia.


Map of Governors' positions on abortion...

Red--pro-choice
Gray--mixed
Blue--pro-life

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